Engineers of Valhalla Brainstorming Thread

[TREX]

ENGINEERS OF VALHALLA BRAINSTORMING THREAD​

This thread is where you can put your ideas for any new terrain ideas you have to be discussed and fleshed out to find the scope of what your going for on your terrain piece before it gets started in its own design thread. To submit a piece of terrain to be discussed, have an outline of what you would like for the piece of terrain to do, as well as a free and shareable stl that can represent your piece on the battlefield. Don't worry if its not attached to a base or hex. If it gets fleshed out enough an altered file that is ready to print with those things can be made.

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

Reserved:

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

@lefton4ya, @Shiftrex, @Flash_19, @coachmuskie, @Tornado @S1R_ART0R1US

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

I'll start by adding a piece that I've been using for years and have made a ton of for fellow scapers. I think it would be best to do them in this format:

Name: Arcane Portal
Thingiverse File: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2135174

Terrain Footprint: Single Hex

Ability Overview:
Arcane Travel
When moving, any figure adjacent to an Arcane Portal may use one move space to place the moving figure adjacent to any other Arcane Portal on the battlefield. When using Arcane Travel, figures will take any leaving engagement attacks.

I'd also like to throw an alternate rule in there to make traveling on there have a chance for randomly throwing your figures next to other portals or something.

Arcane Rift
When using Arcane Travel, Roll the 20 sided die, On a roll of a 3 or lower, your opponent picks any empty space on the battle field to place your figure.

What this adds to the game is a way to link battlefields together, be able to play on multiple level battlefields without restrictions to non flying or ranged figures.

 

[Flash_19]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

Yeah @TREX , those portals are awesome. And they make bigger maps so much more playable which is a huge plus. I've never played them with the arcane rift ability - that's a really fun twist that I'll likely incorporate into my games!

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

Yeah @TREX , those portals are awesome. And they make bigger maps so much more playable which is a huge plus. I've never played them with the arcane rift ability - that's a really fun twist that I'll likely incorporate into my games!

I think we should make a template for a Terrain Rule Card if it is going to be a piece of interactive terrain instead of a Destructible Object. I feel like the portal is a pretty cut and dry piece of terrain with pretty solid rules that don't need to much tweaking albeit maybe adjusting the number for Arcane Rift. Once a design is good to go, I can make a legit, scaled, and Properly based version that is good to go on a heroscape tile.

 

[lefton4ya]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

One other idea is to make terrain that can either be 3D printed OR "papercraft". For instance, WotC officially released Papercraft Hedrons but @Toshi Umezawa made a 3-hex 3D stl version for it and JustAnotherPrinterGuy made a 1-hex 3d stl version as well. See Hedron Horde - NEW - Special Rule Suggestion.

Here's a drop box link to the hedron, wizards doesn't seem to be hosting it anymore,Hedron PDF, DroBox Link

They're still hosting it; over on the planeswalker forums, there's a thread that gives this link to the PDF. In that thread, where the OP asks for suggestions on terrain to make for 3D printing, which has the link to the PDF on the wizards host and some images of a papercraft 'crashed' hedron, he has screenshots from 123D Design of a hedron embedded in a three-hex tile. No sign of an actual STL file from that yet, though.

Finished them all up and weighted/based them. Here are them free standing on a 2 by 2 AotP board. Let me know what you think!

*New Question* What sort of special rules would you think could be used for these?
I was thinking somewhere on the lines of, "If you control two more figures adjacent to a Hedron than your opponent, roll a 20 sided dice. If the result is 15 or higher summon one Eldrazi Scion figure that you may activate in addition to your standard unit activation. If you do not succeed in spawning an Eldrazi Scion mark that Hedron, neither you nor your opponent may spawn Eldrazi Scion Figures from Hedrons that have been marked. You may only activate one Eldrazi Scion figure per turn as a bonus activation.

@toshi on planeswalker-arena posted some 3-d files to get printed

The full Zendikar Hedron 3D Model and images can now be viewed on Thingiverse using Thingiview.
You can order a print from 3d hubs or other sites price will vary based on your location.

Some ideas:

• Opponents' figures must be adjacent to small and medium figures next to a Hedron to attack those figures with a normal attack. [Less powerful version of Glyph of Thorian]
• Small and medium figures next to a Hedron may use Hedron Teleport instead of moving normally. To Hedron Teleport, move to any empty space adjacent to any Hedron within clear sight. When using Hedron Teleport, do not take any leaving engagement attacks. [Similar to Dzu-Teh's Glacier Traverse]
• All figures next to a Hedron may add 1 to a 20 sided die roll for any special power. [Less powerful version of glyph of Lodin]

Which of these do people like best, or have any additional ideas?

 

[Shiftrex]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

-> Opponents' figures must be adjacent to small and medium figures next to a Hedron to attack those figures with a normal attack. [Less powerful version of Glyph of Thorian]

I find that one to be really fun to play with on the board, how are you thinking that happens in terms of flavor? If I was going to spitball ideas, it might be interesting to have terrain that interacts/impacts specific factions. They look like Vydar could have summoned them/placed them.

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

For the hedrons, lorewise what is it that they do? I’m seeing three very different ideas of what they could do. First is some kind of magical protection, next is basically the same as a portal, and the third is a 20 sided die booster. Another question would be, how many of these hedrons is needed to play with them? Will they be a set. I’ll reference the portal I posted above as an example. The minimum needed to play is 2 portals. They are easily recognized by most people to convey some kind of teleportation type of travel. With the hedron, maybe figure out how best to use them. What would represent their power the best. It would be interesting to see them ward off normal ranged attacks or boost a 20 sided die. I would be most intrigued by them warding off ranged normal attacks. This would also allow them to be used with a minimum of 1 of them on a battlefield, making them easier to obtain for people wanting to use them. As the person spearheading the hedron, possibly decide what direction you’d want to take them.

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

Another idea I’ve had that would work really great for map building to change things up a bit would be gun emplacements for figures to use that are placed on the battlefield. Anything from cannons, catapults, and balistas, to rail guns, laser cannons, and machine guns. I would for sure want these to be destructible objects that are placed strategically on the battlefield by map makers. There could be different rules for different weapon emplacements. After using the Golan anti infantry battery in HoSS, I came up with a few alternate weapons utilizing some of those rules. There are quite a few different projectile types that fit the bill here for making some interesting maps.

 

[Muskie]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

So I have been working with the Obelisk on Thingiverse:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3646449

I see them with a d20 power when you are next to them.

If a unique hero starts their turn next to a Obelisk and does not leave engagement with the Obelisk during their movement, they roll a D20 and apply the following affect before they attack:

1-5 nothing happens
6-8 -1 defense until you leave the obelisk (bummer)
9-11 counterstrike against normal ranged attacks (it is magical)
12-14 +1 attack until you leave the obelisk
15-17 +1 defense until you leave the obelisk
18-20 teleport to another Obelisk (not sure how to choose if there is more than one more on the board).


this is what I was thinking. You could do less powers that are more powerful, with it harder to get. I like board touchstones that can be chaotic. Kind of a hero support (unless you roll under 8, obelisks can be tricky). They could come in a 2 or 4 pack for the board, depending on board size.

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

So I have been working with the Obelisk on Thingiverse:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3646449

I see them with a d20 power when you are next to them.

If a unique hero starts their turn next to a Obelisk and does not leave engagement with the Obelisk during their movement, they roll a D20 and apply the following affect before they attack:

1-5 nothing happens
6-8 -1 defense until you leave the obelisk (bummer)
9-11 counterstrike against normal ranged attacks (it is magical)
12-14 +1 attack until you leave the obelisk
15-17 +1 defense until you leave the obelisk
18-20 teleport to another Obelisk (not sure how to choose if there is more than one more on the board).


this is what I was thinking. You could do less powers that are more powerful, with it harder to get. I like board touchstones that can be chaotic. Kind of a hero support (unless you roll under 8, obelisks can be tricky). They could come in a 2 or 4 pack for the board, depending on board size.

It does need a better name to represent what it does. Perhaps "Rune of Power". As far as the possible abilities it can have, similar to the Hedrons, it seems that there is alot of things packed into one item. Sometimes keeping the item a little more simple is better as far as game play goes. Every turn a card is going to have to be referenced to see what goes on. An interesting idea here would be to give the "Rune of Power" one positive effect, with a lesser negative effect to keep figures from sitting next to a rune the whole game. Instead of focusing on just Teleportation, why not something like. "While adjacent to a Rune of Ivor, you may target an enemy figure from any Rune of Ivor on the battlefield with a normal attack." or something to that effect. Wizards sight, or true sight, or wizards eye is something that could do something like that. Then you could have the user roll to recieve damage for using the power. Something like a 5 or lower, or on a roll of a 1 or something.

Or have a "Rune of Wannok" that allows the user to add attack dice to their normal attack. Afterwards they roll a 20 sided die to roll for damage, and subtract as many extra dice they roll from their roll. Keeping with a simpler theme for the terrain makes it easier for players to use it.

 

[Muskie]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

So I have been working with the Obelisk on Thingiverse:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3646449

I see them with a d20 power when you are next to them.

If a unique hero starts their turn next to a Obelisk and does not leave engagement with the Obelisk during their movement, they roll a D20 and apply the following affect before they attack:

1-5 nothing happens
6-8 -1 defense until you leave the obelisk (bummer)
9-11 counterstrike against normal ranged attacks (it is magical)
12-14 +1 attack until you leave the obelisk
15-17 +1 defense until you leave the obelisk
18-20 teleport to another Obelisk (not sure how to choose if there is more than one more on the board).


this is what I was thinking. You could do less powers that are more powerful, with it harder to get. I like board touchstones that can be chaotic. Kind of a hero support (unless you roll under 8, obelisks can be tricky). They could come in a 2 or 4 pack for the board, depending on board size.

It does need a better name to represent what it does. Perhaps "Rune of Power". As far as the possible abilities it can have, similar to the Hedrons, it seems that there is alot of things packed into one item. Sometimes keeping the item a little more simple is better as far as game play goes. Every turn a card is going to have to be referenced to see what goes on. An interesting idea here would be to give the "Rune of Power" one positive effect, with a lesser negative effect to keep figures from sitting next to a rune the whole game. Instead of focusing on just Teleportation, why not something like. "While adjacent to a Rune of Ivor, you may target an enemy figure from any Rune of Ivor on the battlefield with a normal attack." or something to that effect. Wizards sight, or true sight, or wizards eye is something that could do something like that. Then you could have the user roll to recieve damage for using the power. Something like a 5 or lower, or on a roll of a 1 or something.

Or have a "Rune of Wannok" that allows the user to add attack dice to their normal attack. Afterwards they roll a 20 sided die to roll for damage, and subtract as many extra dice they roll from their roll. Keeping with a simpler theme for the terrain makes it easier for players to use it.

Awesome feedback! I didn't even think to name it! Very true about simpler. Ok, time to rework and simplify. It is so true about checking the card. You do not want people to have to do that. I tell me students to simplify all of the time, and then I get caught up in it!

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

@coachmuskie, I have to remind myself that sometimes less is more quite often. There have been so many times that I get so excited about a character or thing that I want to cram as much awesome in there as possible. In the end though, a quick and easy rule set for a piece of terrain usually hits the table more because it’s easy to use. Remind yourself as well that we have plenty of room for a bunch of ideas for a bunch of different terrain. That’s why, with the portal, it’s pretty cut and dry. Go from portal to portal, and it can’t get to confusing that way. The arcane rift idea is just thematic and optional icing on the cake. With arcane rift, I might make the possible negative side affect the same as rolling for a treasure glyph to keep it simple with a 5 or better and you don’t get thrown out on a random space. Simple. Yet it adds something very useful to the game, that just about anyone can recognize just from looking at it.

 

[Archie97]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

So my thoughts on terrain are that simplicity ABSOLUTELY rules. Look at all the official terrain we got. Nothing that isn’t a destructible object needed a card. Jungle pieces, shadow tiles, lava etc, all have an interesting, dynamic effect on battlefield construction and gameplay, but can all be understood and memorised by an 8 year old.
Now don’t get me wrong, there’s definitely a place in hero’s cape for a bunch of crazy whacky obelisks with 6 different effects or what have you, but if you’re trying for a C3V-level “official” project, this is not that place.
The portals are an interesting idea for sure, as TREX says, but I’m even less sold on the Arcane Rift idea. First of all it adds a layer of variance that I think will make it a more difficult sell to many players. I personally don’t like the idea of the map bringing any level of uncontrolled variance to a game. The only official pieces that do that are the two lava tiles, and even then molten lava barely counts as variance, and lava field is easily avoided as you roll once at the end of the round.
In my opinion, the map should be a known sum. You should be able to sit down at the beginning of a game, and know exactly what everything on the map is going to do. Figure, combat, and you opponent bring enough unknowns by far. Of course I’ll reiterate that I’m referring explicitly to a competitive setting here, whatever you want to happen in a casual game is absolutely your call.
This could be a super interesting project, and one I would love to be onboard with, but I think that baby steps are key, IMO a terrain piece will need more testing than a figure, and too many knobs to turn on the first few pieces is going to make hammering out and streamlining that process exponentially more difficult.

 

[Tornado]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

This is easily solved by having both terrain for competitive and casual play.
Terrain that can be set up to work like an AI, like the gun embankments, could make for possible solo or co-op play scenarios.

 

[Muskie]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

So my thoughts on terrain are that simplicity ABSOLUTELY rules. Look at all the official terrain we got. Nothing that isn’t a destructible object needed a card. Jungle pieces, shadow tiles, lava etc, all have an interesting, dynamic effect on battlefield construction and gameplay, but can all be understood and memorised by an 8 year old.
Now don’t get me wrong, there’s definitely a place in hero’s cape for a bunch of crazy whacky obelisks with 6 different effects or what have you, but if you’re trying for a C3V-level “official” project, this is not that place.
The portals are an interesting idea for sure, as TREX says, but I’m even less sold on the Arcane Rift idea. First of all it adds a layer of variance that I think will make it a more difficult sell to many players. I personally don’t like the idea of the map bringing any level of uncontrolled variance to a game. The only official pieces that do that are the two lava tiles, and even then molten lava barely counts as variance, and lava field is easily avoided as you roll once at the end of the round.
In my opinion, the map should be a known sum. You should be able to sit down at the beginning of a game, and know exactly what everything on the map is going to do. Figure, combat, and you opponent bring enough unknowns by far. Of course I’ll reiterate that I’m referring explicitly to a competitive setting here, whatever you want to happen in a casual game is absolutely your call.
This could be a super interesting project, and one I would love to be onboard with, but I think that baby steps are key, IMO a terrain piece will need more testing than a figure, and too many knobs to turn on the first few pieces is going to make hammering out and streamlining that process exponentially more difficult.

Very well put! I get caught up on really cool ideas, and then lose the simplicity idea. simple and straightforward is the key to success.

 

[Archie97]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

This is easily solved by having both terrain for competitive and casual play.
Terrain that can be set up to work like an AI, like the gun embankments, could make for possible solo or co-op play scenarios.

As I said, there is definitely a place in 'scape for more intricate, splashy terrain pieces, I've made some myself. But I believe that place is within playgroups and the Custom Terrain thread in general. If the aim is a C3V style project, producing balanced terrain pieces that have a positive, dynamic affect on gameplay in such a way that they are both worth using, and avle to be used in a tournament/competitive environment should be the goal.

 

[lefton4ya]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

-> Opponents' figures must be adjacent to small and medium figures next to a Hedron to attack those figures with a normal attack. [Less powerful version of Glyph of Thorian]

I find that one to be really fun to play with on the board, how are you thinking that happens in terms of flavor? If I was going to spitball ideas, it might be interesting to have terrain that interacts/impacts specific factions. They look like Vydar could have summoned them/placed them.

I Agree this is the best of my ideas in terms of interesting gameplay and map design, and is very simple rules that does not need a card, as is very similar to glyph of Thorian. As far as "story" - I don't know unless we want to bring the MtG "Plansewalker" mythos into Valhalla, or maybe something vaguely resembling the mythology like some objects that were summoned from wellsprings from another dimension.

Anyway in terms of map-making, I see them as spread AT LEAST 7 hexes away form each other to prevent people from moving just from one to the other to not be attacked, or maybe at least some parts of the map this way. But they would make interesting "choke points" as a lot of the fighting might end up around them.

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

So my thoughts on terrain are that simplicity ABSOLUTELY rules. Look at all the official terrain we got. Nothing that isn’t a destructible object needed a card. Jungle pieces, shadow tiles, lava etc, all have an interesting, dynamic effect on battlefield construction and gameplay, but can all be understood and memorised by an 8 year old.
Now don’t get me wrong, there’s definitely a place in hero’s cape for a bunch of crazy whacky obelisks with 6 different effects or what have you, but if you’re trying for a C3V-level “official” project, this is not that place.
The portals are an interesting idea for sure, as TREX says, but I’m even less sold on the Arcane Rift idea. First of all it adds a layer of variance that I think will make it a more difficult sell to many players. I personally don’t like the idea of the map bringing any level of uncontrolled variance to a game. The only official pieces that do that are the two lava tiles, and even then molten lava barely counts as variance, and lava field is easily avoided as you roll once at the end of the round.
In my opinion, the map should be a known sum. You should be able to sit down at the beginning of a game, and know exactly what everything on the map is going to do. Figure, combat, and you opponent bring enough unknowns by far. Of course I’ll reiterate that I’m referring explicitly to a competitive setting here, whatever you want to happen in a casual game is absolutely your call.
This could be a super interesting project, and one I would love to be onboard with, but I think that baby steps are key, IMO a terrain piece will need more testing than a figure, and too many knobs to turn on the first few pieces is going to make hammering out and streamlining that process exponentially more difficult.

Great points, and I for sure agree on simplicity. The arcane rift idea was one I had that was optional at best. The portals work perfectly as a way to travel from point a to point b without any confusion, and without the need for a card even. I had it on there as an optional thing but think it would be even better without being on there. Even with it’s one thing it would be a great tool for map makers and allow for competitive maps to be multi level without having to use ladders. In a general rule of thumb. Keeping a terrain piece to a minimal number of effects is an optimal route. For example: this piece of terrain does x. Instead of multiple effects. My thoughts on a turret or gun mount operated by a miniature would have: a condition to use it, and an ability it does. Very simple, but easy to understand, fun, and effective way to change things up. I look forward to whatever you add to the conversation. Feel free to jump in.

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

-> Opponents' figures must be adjacent to small and medium figures next to a Hedron to attack those figures with a normal attack. [Less powerful version of Glyph of Thorian]

I find that one to be really fun to play with on the board, how are you thinking that happens in terms of flavor? If I was going to spitball ideas, it might be interesting to have terrain that interacts/impacts specific factions. They look like Vydar could have summoned them/placed them.

I Agree this is the best of my ideas in terms of interesting gameplay and map design, and is very simple rules that does not need a card, as is very similar to glyph of Thorian. As far as "story" - I don't know unless we want to bring the MtG "Plansewalker" mythos into Valhalla, or maybe something vaguely resembling the mythology like some objects that were summoned from wellsprings from another dimension.

Anyway in terms of map-making, I see them as spread AT LEAST 7 hexes away form each other to prevent people from moving just from one to the other to not be attacked, or maybe at least some parts of the map this way. But they would make interesting "choke points" as a lot of the fighting might end up around them.

I like the simplicity of making the hedrons give adjacent figures a thorian type of ability. That in itself is an interesting enough thing for a piece of terrain that gives some very interesting things to a mapmaker.

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

It seems like everyone participating in the thread have a good scope of the basis core ideas we need to consider to move forward with some really fun and interesting terrain.

Edit: as a general rule of thumb, we could limit the terrain pieces to a condition, and an effect to keep them to a level of simplicity.

Arcane Portal for example:
Condition-figures adjacent to an arcane portal may use one space of movement.
Effect- to place their figure on an empty space adjacent to another Arcane portal on the battlefield.

Simple enough, but effectively makes a whole lot of fun new possibilities for map makers.

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

@lefton4ya, would you want the hedrons in a little set? Maybe one on a three hex, with two one spaced ones. As long as we have a base file, I can scale it and adjust it to whatever is needed and then post the appropriately scaled files onto thingiverse as a remix.

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

@Archie97, this is in fact the thread we were discussing the “project at hand” to get it started, as far as I was aware. Are you starting up another project in another thread? We hadn’t came up with a group name for it as of yet. I would propose that to the group of people involved once it picks up speed and gains a little footing. Most of what was said in the other post was said here as well. There is definitely room to make a section for terrain of balanced proportions with simplicity for competitive maps, as well as a depository for terrain that is more complex that is there for fun only. With how small the community is for this kind of thing, I wouldn’t propose doing multiple groups for it. As far as making 3D objects or stls, the items on thingiverse have different permissions to them that allow for things to be used or remixed for different things. I’m both a 3D printing enthusiast and 3D modeler, so should be able to help gauge things in that aspect.

Edit: if you are interested, I’ll add you to the list of members wanting to participate here up in the second post I believe, along with anyone else that wants to get in on this. That way, once we form a solid group, with solid ideals, we can have a list of team members to make decisions.

 

[TREX]

Re: Interactive Terrain Brainstorming thread

Also while we are at it, we should brainstorm possible names for this terrain making group. I believe Archie suggested “Landmarks of Valhalla”. While it has a good ring to it, I’m not sure it encompasses the general theme. If we were to create a gun turret of some kind later on, it’s not really a landmark. Or a Wild West theme, or what have you. Everyone shoot some ideas, then we can take a count on what everyone thinks sounds best. Landmarks of Valhalla isn’t my first call but if the majority wants that we can go with it. We went with Architects of Valhalla for our terrain thread. This kind of thing falls in a very similar category if I’m being honest. The word Engineer in the title is fitting, since we are engineering new pieces of terrain, but I’m not sure I’d want to call it Engineers of Valhalla . I look forward to what everyone comes up with.