dok's battle reports

[lonewolf]

I did specifically ask Tom if he was OK with the placement. He said he was. I guess I would rather have it always be allowed, but I recognize that anyone who wants to enforce the letter of the rule can.

I guess that it is the lack of consistency that I take issue with. I am quite sure that Brandan would not have tried to place a double space figure illegally after telling someone else that they couldn't. That screams hipocracy. Didn't you deny MM's Q-9 later in the Reverse the whip part of the TOC? So in one match it is OK because you asked first and the next match you don't allow it. Obviously both times it was to your advantage so you went the way that helped you. I don't believe that you feel 'bad' about denying it when you obviously feel OK about doing it. If you weren't walking on both sides of the fence, we aren't having this conversation.

 

[dok]

No, I never denied MM placement at a ruin. I denied him a spot where he couldn't fit flat on the space because his gun hit the battlements.

I'm sure Brandan would make that call every time. I don't have a problem with that. I agree that it's a fair call. But I wouldn't make that call every time - or at least, it's a call I had never made in my life before the game against Joe. Maybe you don't believe me that I felt bad about making that call to Joe, but I did. Nothing more I can say on that.

As I said to him (more than once) at the time, "I wouldn't make the call if it hadn't been made on me the day before". I would have felt a little like a sap losing twice (in part) because I had a rule enforced on me in one game and then didn't enforce the exact same rule in another. Conversely, there's no way I would have made that call on Ken in the RTW game - not after Tom gave me that call the game before.

I suppose this sort of tit-for-tat approach to enforcing the rule is a bit silly. Fine, Mike... from now on, I won't place figures that way, and I'll enforce it on others the same way. It's the only way to be consistent.

 

[Matthias Maccabeus]

My Q9 was denied placement by dok by battlements. Did he fit there, eh as well as dok had him up in Hendal's game. Did I care? Not really. I play for fun (except the whole Q9, rats, Raelin thing...yuck!). Does dok want to win more than I do. I think the answer is definitely yes. Does that make him a bad person? No I don't think so.

But consistency is a pretty big deal when it comes to something like this, so if you allow your own figures to fit in spaces they don't fit, you better be prepared to do it vice versa...

And I'm not pointing the finger at dok but just saying in general to anybody. Please people when you play the game (remember it's a game) be fair. I was on the bad end of something like that years ago and it's still left a very bad taste in my mouth for tournament heroScape.

 

[dok]

My Q9 was denied placement by dok by battlements. Did he fit there, eh as well as dok had him up in Hendal's game. Did I care? Not really. I play for fun (except the whole Q9, rats, Raelin thing...yuck!). Does dok want to win more than I do. I think the answer is definitely yes. Does that make him a bad person? No I don't think so. But consistency is a pretty big deal when it comes to something like this, so if you allow your own figures to fit in spaces they don't fit, you better be prepared to do it vice versa...

That Q9 was pretty darn off-kilter in our game...

But that's not the point. You are right that I need to be consistent about this. I had always been in the "allow" camp, but I think that in order to avoid this issue in the future I need to be in the "disallow" camp from now on. Otherwise I run the risk of it going one way in one game and another way in another. And yes, obviously, that has to apply to my own guys, too.

 

[lonewolf]

But that's not the point. You are right that I need to be consistent about this. I had always been in the "allow" camp, but I think that in order to avoid this issue in the future I need to be in the "disallow" camp from now on. Otherwise I run the risk of it going one way in one game and another way in another. And yes, obviously, that has to apply to my own guys, too.

Consistency - I like it!

Did you know that Matthias was the DRAGON DICE WORLD CHAMPION!!!!

 

[Matthias Maccabeus]

Did you know that Matthias was the DRAGON DICE WORLD CHAMPION!!!!

I prefer the term IS the Dragon Dice World Champion.

 

[killercactus]

I wish I was at GenCon this year just to participate in the "yo mama" jokes.

 

[Dignan]

Nice report, dok. Thanks for taking the time to write it all out.

... Q9's second attack (of 3?? why not use repeated attacks of 1?

Well, there is a little logic to rolling attacks of three at Isamu. With a one skull attack, Isamu not only has his 60% survival chance from vanishing, but also an additional 17% chance (one third of 40%) of blocking the attacking. Giving a one skull attack only a 27% chance of killing the ninja.

Alternatively, a two skull (or more) attack has a straight up 40% chance of killing him. While Q9 is only likely to to roll 2 two skull attacks (as opposed to 4.5 1 skull attacks) the odds of getting all 4.5 of those attacks off on a visible ninja are slim.

Of course, depending on the game situation this can all change, but it's not as terrible an idea as you seem to paint it in the report.

My Q9 was denied placement by dok by battlements. Did he fit there, eh as well as dok had him up in Hendal's game. Did I care? Not really. I play for fun (except the whole Q9, rats, Raelin thing...yuck!). Does dok want to win more than I do. I think the answer is definitely yes. Does that make him a bad person? No I don't think so.

Did that really happen?? Man... weak sauce. While I agree that it doesn't make anyone a bad person, it's just lame. That's something you expect at a Magic or 40k tournament not something I'd expect from the "older" guys in this community.

Oh well.

 

[SuperflyTNT]

The one major thing that I didn't like about the whole GenCon thing this year was the flicking of the order marker. Dok got all pissed and flicked over an order marker that hit Lonewolf's kid.

Luckily for Dok, Lonewolf's a very, very kind and generous man. If I was GMing and I saw that, I'd have immediately disqualified him for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Certain people take winning WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. It's not just Dok, but if being a "Heroscape Champion" is so important to you that you're going to be an ass, not only do you have a sad, empty life, chances are that along the way, someone is going to stomp the brakes off you in the parking lot.

Rule #1 of Tournament Heroscape: Be nice. It's about FUN, not winning.

 

[dok]

... Q9's second attack (of 3?? why not use repeated attacks of 1?

Well, there is a little logic to rolling attacks of three at Isamu. With a one skull attack, Isamu not only has his 60% survival chance from vanishing, but also an additional 17% chance (one third of 40%) of blocking the attacking. Giving a one skull attack only a 27% chance of killing the ninja.

Alternatively, a two skull (or more) attack has a straight up 40% chance of killing him. While Q9 is only likely to to roll 2 two skull attacks (as opposed to 4.5 1 skull attacks) the odds of getting all 4.5 of those attacks off on a visible ninja are slim.

Of course, depending on the game situation this can all change, but it's not as terrible an idea as you seem to paint it in the report.

You're right about the odds, of course. In that particular in-game situation, though, anywhere I vanished to outside of Q9's range/LoS would have left me too far away to attack Raelin on the next turn.

My Q9 was denied placement by dok by battlements. Did he fit there, eh as well as dok had him up in Hendal's game. Did I care? Not really. I play for fun (except the whole Q9, rats, Raelin thing...yuck!). Does dok want to win more than I do. I think the answer is definitely yes. Does that make him a bad person? No I don't think so.

Did that really happen?? Man... weak sauce. While I agree that it doesn't make anyone a bad person, it's just lame. That's something you expect at a Magic or 40k tournament not something I'd expect from the "older" guys in this community.

Oh well.

I would strongly dispute that the placement in that spot would be in any way equivalent to the placement of a figure at the elbow of the ruin. I've had placements like the one I denied to Matthias denied to me many, many times, and I've denied them to others many times. I really don't think that one was controversial at all. That's a case where the figure's sculpt prevents the base from lying flat.

The issue that was new to me last weekend, and that I had never seen disputed before, was the elbow of the ruin pushing the (narrow) peanut base so that it's slightly off the raised portion of the hex. I had that placement denied to me on Friday, I denied it to someone else in reverse the whip on Saturday, and then I went back to playing the way I had always played after that tournament... until lonewolf convinced me here that if I'm going to make that call even once, I have to live by it.

 

[dok]

The one major thing that I didn't like about the whole GenCon thing this year was the flicking of the order marker. Dok got all pissed and flicked over an order marker that hit Lonewolf's kid.

Luckily for Dok, Lonewolf's a very, very kind and generous man. If I was GMing and I saw that, I'd have immediately disqualified him for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Certain people take winning WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. It's not just Dok, but if being a "Heroscape Champion" is so important to you that you're going to be an ass, not only do you have a sad, empty life, chances are that along the way, someone is going to stomp the brakes off you in the parking lot.

Rule #1 of Tournament Heroscape: Be nice. It's about FUN, not winning.

Wow, this too?

Briefly:

I did flick my OM over really hard one time in the semis. It ricocheted back behind me. I did NOT realize at the time that it hit Brandan, and nobody mentioned this to me until lonewolf did in a PM later.

Despite not realizing that, I apologized (repeatedly) to Brandan about it immediately. It was a really lame thing to do. Perhaps everyone assumed I knew it hit him because I apologized so much, but I was just immediately embarrassed that I had had such a pointless emotional outburst over a moment of lousy luck in a game.

I think that if you asked Brandan whether I was, overall, a good opponent in our games, he would say yes.

EDIT: to the negrepper: you're right. It was unacceptable behavior. An apology doesn't make it OK. Unfortunately, I can't take it back, so all I can do is apologize and resolve to never do it again.

 

[Gurei-Ornery]

The one major thing that I didn't like about the whole GenCon thing this year was the flicking of the order marker. Dok got all pissed and flicked over an order marker that hit Lonewolf's kid.

Luckily for Dok, Lonewolf's a very, very kind and generous man. If I was GMing and I saw that, I'd have immediately disqualified him for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Certain people take winning WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. It's not just Dok, but if being a "Heroscape Champion" is so important to you that you're going to be an ass, not only do you have a sad, empty life, chances are that along the way, someone is going to stomp the brakes off you in the parking lot.

Rule #1 of Tournament Heroscape: Be nice. It's about FUN, not winning.

Wow, this too?

Briefly:

I did flick my OM over really hard one time in the semis. It ricocheted back behind me. I did NOT realize at the time that it hit Brandan, and nobody mentioned this to me until lonewolf did in a PM later.

Despite not realizing that, I apologized (repeatedly) to Brandan about it immediately. It was a really lame thing to do. Perhaps everyone assumed I knew it hit him because I apologized so much, but I was just immediately embarrassed that I had had such a pointless emotional outburst over a moment of lousy luck in a game.

I think that if you asked Brandan whether I was, overall, a good opponent in our games, he would say yes.

EDIT: to the negrepper: you're right. It was unacceptable behavior. An apology doesn't make it OK. Unfortunately, I can't take it back, so all I can do is apologize and resolve to never do it again.

Preface/Disclaimer:
This is not in anyway meant to condone the behavior or minimize others problems with it, I just want to let you know your not alone. If your aren't like me, I apologize; maybe I'm just hoping I'm not alone.

I feel for you Dok. I personally believe (clarity courtesy of many years of suffering from similar situations in sports not plastic) that some us, no matter how hard we try, will never be "the Dude". I get ticked off by crap rolls even though, most of the time, I don't even care about winning. I actually like complaining, so I don't deserve good rolls. All you can do is apologize, move on, and continue to try to handle the situations better, which it seems like you are trying to do.

On a lighter note, would it be "wrong" to call in sick for a self inflicted eye wound suffered while playing Heroscape?

G-O

 

[Kaemon Awasome]

dok, thanks for posting all of your Battle Reports, I like reading all the detail. I doubt I'll ever go to GenCon so I'm grateful for these.

MM and lonewolf, I want to read your battle reports of GenCon!!

Also, as for OMGate, it's probably better to deal in PM's with those who were there instead of airing stuff out publicly. That's just my opinion, but I would hate to see someone think negatively of any of the guys on this thread over something that they won't have the details to or have been present to witness.

 

[SuperflyTNT]

"This too?" Hey, it's true, isn't it?

Man, you have to realize that a lot of these folks have been playing this game (myself included) for many, many years and this was a first for many of us. It was uncharacteristically weenie to get all worked up, and it goes to show that you're a very competitive person, which isn't a bad thing. The problem is that when winning becomes so important that you invest your emotions into it in such a tangible way, it shows that you're more interested in winning than having fun. The magic to remember, it's just a game, bro, and it should be fun before all else.

If you win, you win. If you lose, you lose. Either way, if you get so emotionally worked up that you get so angry that you start flicking stuff, you're probably too close to the situation.

I was cool with you, if that makes you feel any better. Our game was fun, even though you wiped my ass out handily, and it was cool of you to allow a map change since I'd played SO MANY TIMES on that other map.

 

[lonewolf]

MM and lonewolf, I want to read your battle reports of GenCon!!

Also, as for OMGate, it's probably better to deal in PM's with those who were there instead of airing stuff out publicly. That's just my opinion, but I would hate to see someone think negatively of any of the guys on this thread over something that they won't have the details to or have been present to witness.

Not sure if I am going to post a battle report this year.....I still might do it.

Dok - I think you have handled all the items in question here in a fair and reasonable matter. The apology is good enough for me, especially since you have obviously recognized that you made a mistake and vowed to not behave that way again. I am all good here.

I myself have let myself act less than admirably (near the end) in times of pressure and regretted it later.

 

[killercactus]

I suggest that at their next meeting, Scaper_dude gets to wing an Order Marker at dok from 4 feet away.

 

[Matthias Maccabeus]

dok, thanks for posting all of your Battle Reports, I like reading all the detail. I doubt I'll ever go to GenCon so I'm grateful for these.

MM and lonewolf, I want to read your battle reports of GenCon!!

Also, as for OMGate, it's probably better to deal in PM's with those who were there instead of airing stuff out publicly. That's just my opinion, but I would hate to see someone think negatively of any of the guys on this thread over something that they won't have the details to or have been present to witness.

I'm working on one. It'll be at least next week before I'm done though. Winning the World Championship in Dragon Dice (did I mention that yet) takes a while to write considering very few of you understand DD, so I have to write it in "heroScape" terms.

 

[dok]

lonewolf - thanks for that. I really appreciate it.

"This too?" Hey, it's true, isn't it?

Man, you have to realize that a lot of these folks have been playing this game (myself included) for many, many years and this was a first for many of us. It was uncharacteristically weenie to get all worked up, and it goes to show that you're a very competitive person, which isn't a bad thing. The problem is that when winning becomes so important that you invest your emotions into it in such a tangible way, it shows that you're more interested in winning than having fun. The magic to remember, it's just a game, bro, and it should be fun before all else.

I agree that, of course, it's about having fun before everything else. I'm competitive to a fault - I've admitted that more than once here before. But I don't think being competitive means I have to take away from someone else's fun. The OM thing was (I think) a really uncharacteristic emotional outburst on my part. There's a rather bright line between being competitive and throwing a tantrum. One doesn't have to lead to the other.

Of the 24 games of Heroscape I played last weekend, I enjoyed 23 of them. The only one I didn't enjoy was a game I won. I didn't enjoy it because it seemed like my opponent was frustrated and upset with me during the game. That saps the fun out of things much more than losing does.

 

[SuperflyTNT]

That wasn't the one where Tom had his veins popping out of his neck, was it?

 

[lefton4ya]

I noticed I swore (more choice words are sh!# and cr@* and nothing worse) a few times at Gencon, like when I got some bad luck with dice or realized some of my stuff was missing, so is that worse or better then flicking an order marker? I guess I always get somewhat upset when something unexpected happens - not that I am mad at the opponent, just at luck and the way things turn out. I can't blame anyone for having sudden feelings of anger/disappiontment but as it is said, "it is not the feeling that is wrong, but how you deal with it." So I don't hate someone for feeling disappointed because it somehow means they are more competitive than others, but I do hate the way ANYONE deals with disappointment in a game by throwing stuff or yelling (unless it is intentionally overdramatic to a point where it is funny). I am sure all the 0-5 newbie players were just as disappointed as someone who was an experienced 4-1 player, but it is how they react to each loss or even die roll that matters, not how they feel about each loss.

 

[gamjuven]

That's why I always bring a bag of kittens with me to Gencon. Whenever the dice start getting ridiculous or something happens that I get really angry about, I punt a kitten. It relieves the pressure and the people around me get the pleasure of seeing a flying kitten. Also, since I don't keep track of them, people can pick them up and keep them as pets. Who doesn't like free kittens?

 

[Dad_Scaper]

I used to do that with goldfish but they do not go *anywhere* when punted, plus whether I punt them in the baggie with water or without the baggie, there's a problem. It's like a lose/lose situation.

Next time I'll bring kittens. Are they alive? Lizards are cheap, and people like lizards, too. Hmm...

~ DS, thread hijack apologetically

 

[Elginb]

For what it's worth, I don't think any of us in Colorado have ever had complaints about dok's sportsmanship. I know, I know-- you're thinking that he completely dominates us over here, but we've been dealing him more losses lately and even the Colorado tourney in which he had a losing record he handled pretty well. Sure, he's more competitively focused, but doesn't that just make beating him that much more fun? Why can't we just let him be a lovable villain like Darth Vader?

 

[ZBeeblebrox]

Hug a Sith today!!

 

[Wind Lane]

Who doesn't like free kittens?

The guy who punts them?