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Delta: latest updates and discussion

Great update! The only change I really disagree on is Kuthnak's 20 point increase. Kuthnak is definitely a good figure, but the value of Boiling Blood is noticeably diminished in delta thanks to the point increase the common Orc squads all got. A 5 or 10 point buff would have been sufficient imo - 20 points is 1-2 steps too far. Very good changes outside of that though.

As @S1R_ART0R1US mentioned, this +20 was done in conjunction with the Blades -5, which ends up keeping the Blades + Kuthnak at roughly the same point total (actually -5 net if you run Blades x5) but makes the Blades build with less powerful bonding heroes a bit cheaper.

Getting better balance across different bonding heroes with the same bonding squad was a big goal of ours to try and make all of the bonding options as viable as possible.
 
Is this project at all compatible with CUC/CUA? I know I would use their versions of Roman Archers for example no matter what - there's not a point total that makes the archers viable unless their ability is modified
 
Is this project at all compatible with CUC/CUA? I know I would use their versions of Roman Archers for example no matter what - there's not a point total that makes the archers viable unless their ability is modified

It isn't intended to be compatible, and we aren't taking any changes from CUC into account with any decision making for Delta pricing.

That doesn't mean you can't mix and match as you would want though in your own games; I would caution against taking powers from CUC and combining them with point totals from Delta though, as that would likely cause unbalanced figures.

As you mentioned, some figures aren't super playable in a competitive Delta pricing scene, and that's usually intentional actually (certain figures, like terrain dependent figures or very high variance figures like Deadeye Dan & Sudema, we don't feel are super-conducive to a healthy meta and so those figures tend to still be somewhat over-priced in Delta). And there are other units (like Roman Archers, potentially) where the base powers just don't make for a very good figure. At some point, even as 10 point figures, they just end up wasting space in a start zone.

From Delta's perspective, that's ok. Our goal is mainly to get the ~ 80% of figures that don't hit those corner cases well-priced.
 
Entirely fair! I'll probably be mixing and matching some at my home table

Is this project at all compatible with CUC/CUA? I know I would use their versions of Roman Archers for example no matter what - there's not a point total that makes the archers viable unless their ability is modified

It isn't intended to be compatible, and we aren't taking any changes from CUC into account with any decision making for Delta pricing.

That doesn't mean you can't mix and match as you would want though in your own games; I would caution against taking powers from CUC and combining them with point totals from Delta though, as that would likely cause unbalanced figures.

As you mentioned, some figures aren't super playable in a competitive Delta pricing scene, and that's usually intentional actually (certain figures, like terrain dependent figures or very high variance figures like Deadeye Dan & Sudema, we don't feel are super-conducive to a healthy meta and so those figures tend to still be somewhat over-priced in Delta). And there are other units (like Roman Archers, potentially) where the base powers just don't make for a very good figure. At some point, even as 10 point figures, they just end up wasting space in a start zone.

From Delta's perspective, that's ok. Our goal is mainly to get the ~ 80% of figures that don't hit those corner cases well-priced.
 
Is this project at all compatible with CUC/CUA? I know I would use their versions of Roman Archers for example no matter what - there's not a point total that makes the archers viable unless their ability is modified

It isn't intended to be compatible, and we aren't taking any changes from CUC into account with any decision making for Delta pricing.

That doesn't mean you can't mix and match as you would want though in your own games; I would caution against taking powers from CUC and combining them with point totals from Delta though, as that would likely cause unbalanced figures.
Entirely fair! I'll probably be mixing and matching some at my home table
As long as (as CP said) you stick to one or the other (i.e. Delta costs or CUC version, not both), that will probably work fine 90% of the time or more.
 
Deletion

A mod or admin can delete posts. I don't believe someone else can. Welcome to the boards.

~Dysole, who will delete or merge a post if you want it.
 
Are the latest C3V releases in delta? Amberhive, Ranjit, etc.? Or are they new enough that you just use the regular C3V cost without a delta adjustment?
 
Are the latest C3V releases in delta? Amberhive, Ranjit, etc.? Or are they new enough that you just use the regular C3V cost without a delta adjustment?

All new C3V releases will use their initial cost as their delta cost at first without adjustment.

Edit: the newest releases haven't been added to the spreadsheet yet but should be in the next Delta release (every 4 months).
 
Hey everyone. It’s time for our promised quarterly update to the Delta rankings. I won’t have the updated spreadsheet out for a few days, but I wanted to explain the changes that we’ve agreed upon for this cycle.

Strengthening Filler, part 1
Spoiler Alert!

As stated in the earlier update, powerful filler really greases tournament heroscape by making more builds viable at more point totals. So we’re restoring the best two filler figures to their original cost, and pushing the S-Raider cost down to match their value.

Delta Meta Adjustments
Spoiler Alert!

With fewer ranged attacks and special attacks in the Delta meta, powers like Hatamoto’s Aura start to really shine. We need to adjust our prices to accurately reflect the meta.


Good Stats are Good
Spoiler Alert!

Pretty self-explanatory. Hard to kill units deserve a bump.

The Classic Experience
Spoiler Alert!

While it was neat to get away from them for a bit, Cathars, Rats, and MW can all make for a fun experience for both players. We feel Delta has robbed that feeling a bit. None of them have bonding or an attack greater than 2, so it’s fine.

Strengthening Filler, part 2
Spoiler Alert!

I tried to argue that this would be broken in the power rankings thread, but I was convinced otherwise.
 
I was really confused until I realized today's date.
 
Lol you got me good for a while. Bought into parts 1 & 2, got very confused in part 3, and realized it was April Fool's in part 4
 
Lol you got me good for a while. Bought into parts 1 & 2, got very confused in part 3, and realized it was April Fool's in part 4

The best April's Fools reel you in.
 
Hey all,

The June update for Delta is here! It's not the massive drop that the December update was, but I take that as a positive sign that we are settling in on the level we want.

The spreadsheet links in the first post are updated. Here is a summary of the changes:

Monk Reapportionment
Spoiler Alert!
Monks with the two big heroes was a touch overtuned in Delta, so we raised the price of the squad, while making the three less essential heroes a bit more affordable.

Generic Buffs
Spoiler Alert!
Armocs continued to struggle and could use a bit of a discount. Command Courier deserved a buff a while ago but had frankly slipped through the cracks. Ranjit arrives in Delta at a discount because basically all of his best options are more expensive.

Generic Debuffs
Spoiler Alert!
I suspect you're familiar with these two. They are still good.

Just for the record, these will be the final Delta updates before Scapecon. Thanks to everyone for their interest in Delta.
 
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Briefly want to point out: within the spreadsheet, the "latest updates" tab appears to be mistaken for Command Courier. It's showing a 15 point increase (from 20 points up to 35) rather than a 15 point decrease (from 35 down to 20). The builder is also not showing the correct value.

Ranjit also doesn't show on the "latest updates" tab, although his point value is correct in the spreadsheet
 
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