Classic Heroscape Power Rankings

[vegietarian18]

Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

I'm almost certain the Einar Imperium were playtested at the standard kyrie 110 points and were heavily nerfed after coming out too strong. Maybe even nerfed defense as well as points. Double attack is really really good on a common squad. I feel the same way about Sir Dupuis who was definitely playtested as a Knight bonding hero and heavily nerfed, in losing Champion status and probably raised in cost too. The stats just don't really make sense with Heroscape precedent

 

[Astroking112]

Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

I'm inclined to agree, but rushed nerfs are usually my best guess to explain most underpowered units (such as Hatamoto Taro). For whatever reason, the Einar Imperium are woefully overpriced, and I can't help but wish that they had released at the same point value as all of the other Kyrie squads.

Sir Dupuis was always another figure that I never got much value out of, but I haven't actually used him since I purchased some Knights of Weston. I'll have to test him out sometime to get a better idea of how he functions when he actually has his intended units with him (although I don't expect it'll be too great).

 

[Cleon]

Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

Dupuis has some more army options with the Phantom Knights, too.

 

[Shurrig]

Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

I understand that this could take a substantial amount of time, but I feel like a lot of the short summaries are too short. a few examples are:

Black Wyrmlings- "Cute as Krav or PK tech."

Eltahale- "She's pretty neat and has a cool attack."

Emirroon- "Well, he's more reliable than Saylind."

Granite Guardians- "They're just like Minions... only not."

Grok Riders- "I don't Grok the Groks."

Rhogar Dragonspine- "He's a dude."

Shurrak- "Bowl for Romans!"

There are more like this, but I feel like you get the point. Not to mention, there are a few that just refer you to other units, but I don't think that's super helpful, especially for newcomers to the game. While I get that these descriptions aren't all too serious, what would someone who doesn't understand the meta gain from (say Grimnak's description, which is literally just "CHOMP.") reading them?

I know there are pages for each unit, but I think it would be really cool for a more comprehensive, definitive list of descriptions for each unit. I really don't have a problem with the tier list, I just wish there were better justifications for why the tier list is as it is. Also, since the original post hasn't been updated since 2012, I'm sure there have been shifts in the meta since, so an update would be incredible.

Thank you for letting me ramble

(P.S. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but PDF attached to the original post is heeeaavily outdated. Like, only waves 1-7 are on that PDF)

 

[OEAO]

Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

I understand that this could take a substantial amount of time, but I feel like a lot of the short summaries are too short. a few examples are:

Black Wyrmlings- "Cute as Krav or PK tech."

Eltahale- "She's pretty neat and has a cool attack."

Emirroon- "Well, he's more reliable than Saylind."

Granite Guardians- "They're just like Minions... only not."

Grok Riders- "I don't Grok the Groks."

Rhogar Dragonspine- "He's a dude."

Shurrak- "Bowl for Romans!"

There are more like this, but I feel like you get the point. Not to mention, there are a few that just refer you to other units, but I don't think that's super helpful, especially for newcomers to the game. While I get that these descriptions aren't all too serious, what would someone who doesn't understand the meta gain from (say Grimnak's description, which is literally just "CHOMP.") reading them?

I know there are pages for each unit, but I think it would be really cool for a more comprehensive, definitive list of descriptions for each unit. I really don't have a problem with the tier list, I just wish there were better justifications for why the tier list is as it is. Also, since the original post hasn't been updated since 2012, I'm sure there have been shifts in the meta since, so an update would be incredible.

Thank you for letting me ramble

(P.S. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but PDF attached to the original post is heeeaavily outdated. Like, only waves 1-7 are on that PDF)

Yeah, these rankings are outdated. Check out my rankings in my sig, as well as future articles I'm working on. I'll be adding descriptions for all the figures as well.

 

[Lazy Orang]

Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

To be fair, Grimnak's 'CHOMP' and Rhogar's 'He's a dude' are classics.

 

[Jexik]

Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

I understand that this could take a substantial amount of time, but I feel like a lot of the short summaries are too short. a few examples are:

Black Wyrmlings- "Cute as Krav or PK tech."

Eltahale- "She's pretty neat and has a cool attack."

Emirroon- "Well, he's more reliable than Saylind."

Granite Guardians- "They're just like Minions... only not."

Grok Riders- "I don't Grok the Groks."

Rhogar Dragonspine- "He's a dude."

Shurrak- "Bowl for Romans!"

There are more like this, but I feel like you get the point. Not to mention, there are a few that just refer you to other units, but I don't think that's super helpful, especially for newcomers to the game. While I get that these descriptions aren't all too serious, what would someone who doesn't understand the meta gain from (say Grimnak's description, which is literally just "CHOMP.") reading them?

The original power rankings (back when spider wrote them) were fairly tongue-in-cheek and heavily influenced by his appreciation of ranged units (and the maps that favored them). He was honestly surprised that they were as popular as they were. When units are kinda bad and not worth playing in a tournament, there isn't much to say beyond "he's a dude." I can't imagine wanting to use Rhogar in a competitive event.

When it comes to most of the D&D units, I probably didn't get enough time with them at a competitive level to understand them; Eltahale is a good example and a great cleanup unit, and this 1x or 2x Mezzo spiciness is something new, but also something that probably wouldn't have appeared in the 24-hex, non Reverse the Whip era.

Even though I'm lurking again a bit, I'm hesitant to make a ton of changes here because A) I hardly play enough to have more informed decisions than many of you B) It takes a bit of time C) I think it might provide an interesting snapshot of that time period and playing style.

The biggest thing I've noticed when I have come back is the map changes. Smaller foot prints and "bridge" shaped maps rather than "valley" maps with the height largely in the middle has been a huge boon for melee armies, and why I begrudging accept all of your 4th = 10th claims.

 

[Shurrig]

Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

I understand that this could take a substantial amount of time, but I feel like a lot of the short summaries are too short. a few examples are:

Black Wyrmlings- "Cute as Krav or PK tech."

Eltahale- "She's pretty neat and has a cool attack."

Emirroon- "Well, he's more reliable than Saylind."

Granite Guardians- "They're just like Minions... only not."

Grok Riders- "I don't Grok the Groks."

Rhogar Dragonspine- "He's a dude."

Shurrak- "Bowl for Romans!"

There are more like this, but I feel like you get the point. Not to mention, there are a few that just refer you to other units, but I don't think that's super helpful, especially for newcomers to the game. While I get that these descriptions aren't all too serious, what would someone who doesn't understand the meta gain from (say Grimnak's description, which is literally just "CHOMP.") reading them?

The original power rankings (back when spider wrote them) were fairly tongue-in-cheek and heavily influenced by his appreciation of ranged units (and the maps that favored them). He was honestly surprised that they were as popular as they were. When units are kinda bad and not worth playing in a tournament, there isn't much to say beyond "he's a dude." I can't imagine wanting to use Rhogar in a competitive event.

When it comes to most of the D&D units, I probably didn't get enough time with them at a competitive level to understand them; Eltahale is a good example and a great cleanup unit, and this 1x or 2x Mezzo spiciness is something new, but also something that probably wouldn't have appeared in the 24-hex, non Reverse the Whip era.

Even though I'm lurking again a bit, I'm hesitant to make a ton of changes here because A) I hardly play enough to have more informed decisions than many of you B) It takes a bit of time C) I think it might provide an interesting snapshot of that time period and playing style.

The biggest thing I've noticed when I have come back is the map changes. Smaller foot prints and "bridge" shaped maps rather than "valley" maps with the height largely in the middle has been a huge boon for melee armies, and why I begrudging accept all of your 4th = 10th claims.

I totally get not wanting to change the original post due to nostalgia, new information or whatever, totally get that. It really is a good tier list, and now that I know @OrcElfArmyOne is working on a more current power ranking list, maybe it isn't so necessary to change this original one. I'm fairly new to this community, and while there are still units I have yet to use (I've been dreading having to purchase Aquilla's Alliance) or have the chance to enter a tournament, I do think it's important to give each unit a decent testament. If you look at who's won any major tournament's it's pretty obvious that Deathwalker 7000 sucks and Raelin is overpowered, but if Raelin's description was just "She's overpowered," it's not helpful, and that's really all I was getting at.

Again, I'm fine if this list stays the same, especially with Orc's work on a new power ranking list. It is a loooooooot of work to compile this, so thank you for that and thanks for responding

 

[OEAO]

Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

I understand that this could take a substantial amount of time, but I feel like a lot of the short summaries are too short. a few examples are:

Black Wyrmlings- "Cute as Krav or PK tech."

Eltahale- "She's pretty neat and has a cool attack."

Emirroon- "Well, he's more reliable than Saylind."

Granite Guardians- "They're just like Minions... only not."

Grok Riders- "I don't Grok the Groks."

Rhogar Dragonspine- "He's a dude."

Shurrak- "Bowl for Romans!"

There are more like this, but I feel like you get the point. Not to mention, there are a few that just refer you to other units, but I don't think that's super helpful, especially for newcomers to the game. While I get that these descriptions aren't all too serious, what would someone who doesn't understand the meta gain from (say Grimnak's description, which is literally just "CHOMP.") reading them?

The original power rankings (back when spider wrote them) were fairly tongue-in-cheek and heavily influenced by his appreciation of ranged units (and the maps that favored them). He was honestly surprised that they were as popular as they were. When units are kinda bad and not worth playing in a tournament, there isn't much to say beyond "he's a dude." I can't imagine wanting to use Rhogar in a competitive event.

When it comes to most of the D&D units, I probably didn't get enough time with them at a competitive level to understand them; Eltahale is a good example and a great cleanup unit, and this 1x or 2x Mezzo spiciness is something new, but also something that probably wouldn't have appeared in the 24-hex, non Reverse the Whip era.

Even though I'm lurking again a bit, I'm hesitant to make a ton of changes here because A) I hardly play enough to have more informed decisions than many of you B) It takes a bit of time C) I think it might provide an interesting snapshot of that time period and playing style.

The biggest thing I've noticed when I have come back is the map changes. Smaller foot prints and "bridge" shaped maps rather than "valley" maps with the height largely in the middle has been a huge boon for melee armies, and why I begrudging accept all of your 4th = 10th claims.

I totally get not wanting to change the original post due to nostalgia, new information or whatever, totally get that. It really is a good tier list, and now that I know @OrcElfArmyOne is working on a more current power ranking list, maybe it isn't so necessary to change this original one. I'm fairly new to this community, and while there are still units I have yet to use (I've been dreading having to purchase Aquilla's Alliance) or have the chance to enter a tournament, I do think it's important to give each unit a decent testament. If you look at who's won any major tournament's it's pretty obvious that Deathwalker 7000 sucks and Raelin is overpowered, but if Raelin's description was just "She's overpowered," it's not helpful, and that's really all I was getting at.

Again, I'm fine if this list stays the same, especially with Orc's work on a new power ranking list. It is a loooooooot of work to compile this, so thank you for that and thanks for responding

I will say that where the units are ranked are pretty much going to stay the same until next summer (GenCon time and the Main Event armies I prep with). Many of the switches I made are also reflected in dok's VC power rankings of just units misranked (Eltahale, Romans, MoU/SoJ, MBS, Nilf, etc), while other changes are definitely less community-held opinions (although I still made the changes because they're wrong ). I just need to put in the time to write descriptions for units and why they are where they are.

 

[Jexik]

I know I said I wouldn't really make changes, but I decided to make a couple:

Blade Gruts and Arrow Gruts: Up from B to B+. It just didn't seem right to have them a whole grade below Venocs.

Atlaga, Minions of Utgar, Sentinels of Jandar: Down from A- to B. Squads this expensive are rarely worth it, no matter how good their stats are.

Fire elemental down to B+ from A-. If the A's represent what to expect in tournaments, it doesn't make sense to see Kurrok and co. up there.

I plan to keep most of the other discrepancies OEAO's list has with mine though.

 

[OEAO]

I know I said I wouldn't really make changes, but I decided to make a couple:

Blade Gruts and Arrow Gruts: Up from B to B+. It just didn't seem right to have them a whole grade below Venocs.

Atlaga, Minions of Utgar, Sentinels of Jandar: Down from A- to B. Squads this expensive are rarely worth it, no matter how good their stats are.

Fire elemental down to B+ from A-. If the A's represent what to expect in tournaments, it doesn't make sense to see Kurrok and co. up there.

I plan to keep most of the other discrepancies OEAO's list has with mine though.

I think this is a really good set of final changes for the official rankings. As you said before, yours nicely reflects the power levels back in the earlier part of the game's competitive life, and I still refer back to it often.

 

[Cleon]

I know I said I wouldn't really make changes, but I decided to make a couple:

Blade Gruts and Arrow Gruts: Up from B to B+. It just didn't seem right to have them a whole grade below Venocs.

Atlaga, Minions of Utgar, Sentinels of Jandar: Down from A- to B. Squads this expensive are rarely worth it, no matter how good their stats are.

Fire elemental down to B+ from A-. If the A's represent what to expect in tournaments, it doesn't make sense to see Kurrok and co. up there.

I plan to keep most of the other discrepancies OEAO's list has with mine though.

I agree about the Gruts, they're absolutely better than B. B+ fits them, I'd say.

I agree with Atlaga, but disagree with the two kyries. The two kyries are too strong for B; A- could be too high, but below B+ is too low in my opinion. They're strong squads, and if you compensate for cookie cutter swarms with the rest of your army then they'll shine. Q9+Minionsx2 is quite strong (probably sentinels too), and Sentinels+4th is hella strong (and the less-seen Minions+10th). Them + PKs I like too. I can concede A- might be too high but I really can't see them lower than B+. Especially if we're starting to lean towards lower hex/figure counts where common hordes are smaller.

But yeah Atlaga lower I def agree with. He's a deadly tool, but only ~1/4 of games his bolt will strike, and will it always be in a game where the thing he kills is very high in points?

Fire Elemental lower I agree with, your reasoning makes sense. I'm always very wary about that army anyways; Kurrok dying is such a flaw. Also I can see it stuggling on a lot of SotM maps, which is 1/3 to 1/2 of map pools usually.

 

[RoseHeart]

"Black units should be avoided when making pre-made armies."

But why? If they were bottom tier that would be one thing but some are B+ here.

 

[caps]

"Black units should be avoided when making pre-made armies."

But why? If they were bottom tier that would be one thing but some are B+ here.

This thread should help explain the logic. Basically the argument is that they're too niche.

I do personally disagree that some of those figures should be marked as black though. The wyrmlings are pretty good and not niche. Deathstalkers are okay as Defenders. Sometimes you want an explosion special attack in your army, and James Murphy and Johnny Shotgun are pretty cheap ways to get that. James Murphy can be decent in cleanup.

With that said, most of the black figures probably aren't going to show up in a cheese deathmatch format. They show up more often when there are army building constraints that force more unique army compositions.

 

[RoseHeart]

Hmm, when I searched the page, Black didn't come up in any new context.

I still don't see how you wouldn't just rate it lower.

 

[MegaSilver]

I would recommend looking at the more modern Power Rankings, especially OEAO's Modern Power Rankings.

OEAO's Modern Power Rankings

NOTE: These are preliminary rankings without having played with or against most of these new units. These are definitely subject to change. Comments and speculation are welcomed! We also recorded an episode detailing these units here...

www.heroscapers.com