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Old July 5th, 2007, 05:15 PM
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The Book of Fortress Door

The Book of the Fortress Door
Fortress of the Archkyrie - Wall and Tower Building Pack



_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • Which Special Powers and Attacks can target the door or other Destructible Objects?
    Per the Fortress instructions: The Door may be attacked by a normal attack, a special attack, or by special powers that only cause wounds. The Door cannot be targeted or attacked by special powers that may “destroy” it in one attack.

    Remember, that the Door is not a figure, but it can be targeted and attacked much the same way a figure is targeted and attacked, with some exceptions.

    The Door does not have a size. Special Powers/Special Attacks that target or enhance the attacking figure if the defending “figure” is a certain size will not work. Examples: Deadeye Dan’s Ullar Enhanced Rifle Special Attack, Jotun’s Throw, Sir Denrick’s Giant Killer, & Gladiatron’s Cyberclaw.
    The Door cannot be destroyed. Special Powers/Special attacks that even mention “destroy” as one of the effects cannot be used against the Door. Examples: Deadeye Dan’s Sharpshooter & Grimnak’s Chomp.
    The Door is not a figure. Special Powers that are not necessarily an attack cannot affect the door. Examples: Morsbane’s Rod of Negation, Ne-Gok-Sa’s Mind Shackle, & Agent Carr’s Ghost Walk. Also, the door is not affected by Raelin’s Defensive Aura.

    Do enhancements work on the attacking figure when attacking the door?
    Yes, but only if they do not specify anything about the size of the defending figure. Sir Denrick’s Giant Killer for example, cannot affect Sir Denrick because the Door doesn’t have a size. Normal enhancements like Taelord’s Attack Aura, Omnicron Sniper’s Deadly Shot, Agent Carr’s Sword of Reckoning 4, and Valguard’s First Assault 3, and effects like those will all work when those figures attack the door. See the previous question for more detail on which Special Powers/Special Attacks can affect the door.

    Is there any limitation on when the door's controller can open and close it?
    You may only open/close the door during your teammate's turns, or your own turn. You can now no longer open or close the door during an opponent's turn, so before you finish yours or your teammate's turn, make sure the door is in the position that you want it!
    (Hasbro FAQ)

    Can the shotgun, grenades, and explosion target the Door and hurt someone on the other side?
    These attacks will hit someone behind the door because they are adjacent to the door - being behind the closed door does not stop the ability from affecting them.

    Does Jotun's wild swing interact with the door as though it were a figure?
    If Jotun is adjacent to the door, and an enemy figure is on the other side of the door, adjacent to the door, then the wild swing can hit the enemy figure. If the enemy figure is adjacent to the door and Jotun uses his wild swing on the figure, the door will also be attacked.

    Does height advantage work against the Door?
    Height advantage and extreme height advantage apply against the door.

    If enemy figures are outside, adjacent to the closed door, when it opens, do they inflict any leaving engagement attacks on it?
    No. The door is not a figure.
    (Wizards of the Coast Customer Service)
_________________________________________________________________
-Combinations and Synergies-

-Synergy Benefits Received-
  • - N/A
-Synergy Benefits Offered-
  • - N/A
_________________________________________________________________
-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • Figures with Super Strength can bypass the extra shields granted by the Door's Reinforced Defense.

Last edited by Revdyer; February 24th, 2009 at 11:42 AM.
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  #2  
Old July 5th, 2007, 06:20 PM
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Now with fake power rating!

Thanks, Cavalier. I was looking for that one, but all I could find was the one listed with the castle rulebook.

Power Ranking
Fortress Door- Bringing an army capable of bypassing the door is often the wisest choice. A
this ranking not endorsed by MKSentinel or spider_poison

Fortress Door
And Evisceraxe?
And Plague?
Penetrable by Shotgun/Wild Swing?
Who fits?
Limits on opening/closing by controller?
Legal target if open?
Opening/closing en passant?
Lower it to 5 life?
How to break it down?
Misc. door rules discussion
Vulnerable to Stinger Denial?
And Blood Hungry?

General castle rules discussion

And who can forget the Door's partner in rules-interpretation anguish, the dreaded Ladder?

In Start Zones?
And Grapple?
And Drop?
Jumping off?
Jumping off?

Last edited by rdhight; March 8th, 2009 at 05:28 AM. Reason: added link
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Old July 6th, 2007, 12:22 PM
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So, did we ever get an official ruling on when you're allowed to change the door's position? The ability to move a door after your opponent has finished moving but before they attack seems essentially gamebreaking to me. Right now I realize most people don't play that way now because its just not fun, but there's also absolutely nothing in the rules stopping someone from opening the door to avoid every single melee attack (or any attack on the edge of a character's range). Or am I just completely out of the loop and we already had this question answered?
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Old July 8th, 2007, 08:54 PM
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In this thread:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ead.php?t=4171

the consensus seemed to be that the official rules set no limits on when or how many times the controller may open the Door. The people who thought so had much higher post counts than me, so I won't argue with them.

Nothing says you can't make a scenario rule against it though. Doesn't even have to be a house rule.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 12:57 PM
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I don't think anyone really likes it. House rules or threats of physical force will probably take care of it lots of places. But if there's a written exception in a rulebook or FAQ that officially prevents you from doing it, no one's found it yet.

If there is an official fix, it's in the rules for targeting the door, not opening and closing it. Where opening and closing is concerned, they just don't carve out an exception. The book says, "To target the door, use the hex-shaped tile space that is below the door in determining adjacency, engagement or range...." The mention of engagement makes me think perhaps the door is meant to take a disengagement strike when it "dodges."
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Old July 9th, 2007, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight

If there is an official fix, it's in the rules for targeting the door, not opening and closing it. Where opening and closing is concerned, they just don't carve out an exception. The book says, "To target the door, use the hex-shaped tile space that is below the door in determining adjacency, engagement or range...." The mention of engagement makes me think perhaps the door is meant to take a disengagement strike when it "dodges."
Where does it say that the door has to be shut to be targeted? It's not in the rulebook that I could find. so if the door is open, then imagine that you're just banging on the hinges rather than trying to break that damned english oak.

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Old July 9th, 2007, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaethon
Where does it say that the door has to be shut to be targeted? It's not in the rulebook that I could find. so if the door is open, then imagine that you're just banging on the hinges rather than trying to break that darned english oak.
Yes, you can target the door when it's open-- useful for shooters. But suppose an attacking melee figure approaches the closed door on his own turn, moving adjacent to the hex under it, space No. 1 in the castle rules. He stops his movement. Now the door's controller opens it, moving it to space 3. The attacking figure is definitely not adjacent to space 3 or anything on top of it. He wastes his attack. And the defender can keep making him waste his attack forever. That's the issue here.

I hope it turns out the attacking figure at least takes a swipe at the door as it comes open.
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Old July 11th, 2007, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight
Yes, you can target the door when it's open-- useful for shooters. But suppose an attacking melee figure approaches the closed door on his own turn, moving adjacent to the hex under it, space No. 1 in the castle rules. He stops his movement. Now the door's controller opens it, moving it to space 3. The attacking figure is definitely not adjacent to space 3 or anything on top of it. He wastes his attack. And the defender can keep making him waste his attack forever. That's the issue here.

I hope it turns out the attacking figure at least takes a swipe at the door as it comes open.
my point was that the rules say that for targeting, use space 1. so who cares where the door is. if a melee figure is adjacent to space one, the door can be targeted.

Is this a case of "read the letter of the rule" rather than our thinking of how we'd have to break down an open door?

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Old July 11th, 2007, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaethon
my point was that the rules say that for targeting, use space 1. so who cares where the door is. if a melee figure is adjacent to space one, the door can be targeted.

Is this a case of "read the letter of the rule" rather than our thinking of how we'd have to break down an open door?
The rules do not say to use space 1. They say to "use the hex-shaped tile space that is under the door." I am a big letter-of-the-rule-fan, but I would read the letter of this rule to mean the hex under the door is space 1 if the door is closed, but space 3 if it is open.

If WotC comes back with a ruling that anyone adjacent to space 1 is adjacent to the door, I would be all right with it, but I don't get that from the rules as written.
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Old July 12th, 2007, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight
In this thread:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ead.php?t=4171

the consensus seemed to be that the official rules set no limits on when or how many times the controller may open the Door. The people who thought so had much higher post counts than me, so I won't argue with them.

Nothing says you can't make a scenario rule against it though. Doesn't even have to be a house rule.
Davidlhsl fully explained and rulebook-quoted a completely texted-based and reasonable interpretation of the Castle Rules showing why the door cannot "melee dodge," here.
  • The castle rules should most logically be read: "As long as the controlling player's figure occupies Doorway Space #4, the controlling player may open or close the Door whenever needed [but only] for figures that want to pass through."

This interpretation disallows the whole gunport flip-flopping, bullet-dodging and melee-dodging nonsense.

There are several questions raised in this thread that need to be sent in, but were never sent. Until they are, we have only contradictory interpretations. We don't know what the rules are, so rule however you want.

H
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Old July 12th, 2007, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homba
Davidlhsl fully explained and rulebook-quoted a completely texted-based and reasonable interpretation of the Castle Rules showing why the door cannot "melee dodge," here.
  • The castle rules should most logically be read: "As long as the controlling player's figure occupies Doorway Space #4, the controlling player may open or close the Door whenever needed [but only] for figures that want to pass through."

This interpretation disallows the whole gunport flip-flopping, bullet-dodging and melee-dodging nonsense.
I wish they had written it to say that. But they didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homba
There are several questions raised in this thread that need to be sent in, but were never sent. Until they are, we have only contradictory interpretations. We don't know what the rules are, so rule however you want.
This is maybe the most insightful post I saw in that thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipse
I think this is a situation like the RoboRats, personally. The rules seem to make it pretty clear you can "melee dodge" with the door, but it's highly unlikely that was intended by the developers. More likely than not there's not a solution to this in the rules, but the rules themselves need to be rewritten and clarified to stop this (unless it's actually intended). I honestly don't think this needs to be submitted as a rules clarification, but a request for a better set of rules entirely. I think people have found several ways to exploit the current rules for doors, so the rules probably need to be tightened accordingly.
I look forward to getting official answers on these things, even if they're just slapping a patch on it. But a comprehensive rewrite of the castle rules would be great-- a PDF for now, and a new, better paper rulebook someday when they make more FotA sets down the road.
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Old July 14th, 2007, 12:43 AM
Homba Homba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight
I wish they had written it to say that. But they didn't.

...

I look forward to getting official answers on these things, even if they're just slapping a patch on it. But a comprehensive rewrite of the castle rules would be great-- a PDF for now, and a new, better paper rulebook someday when they make more FotA sets down the road.
Read David's breakdown of the ruletext at the link I gave above. It's an issue of the interpretation of the language, and David's is completely reasonable - moreso because it disallows absurd results. I can't understand how you can assert that David's interpretation is verifiably wrong.

I agree with you that a rewrite of the castle gate rules would be excellent.

H
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