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  #1  
Old March 2nd, 2007, 01:58 PM
Elginb Elginb is offline
 
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Re-Pricing Project

When I wrote my list, I was in a time crunch (at work, of course) and didn't get a chance to explain some of my re-pricing. So here goes:

Major Q9 - 210 - isn't it clear by now that Major Q9 is the best Hero out there? In my own experience, he takes out Charos and Braxas at least as much as they take him out. And Q9 isn't really much more vulnerable to squads than he is to heroes. His value holds up in tournaments, too. I can't understand why he's not the most expensive Hero.

Jotun - 180 - he's too vulnerable to ranged attacks to be 225 points.
Su-Bak-Na - 140 - again, too vulnerable to ranged attacks due to size and low defense to be 160 points. If his wings weren't so gosh darn big, maybe he could at least be an ambush somebody once in a while, but their not, so he should cost less.
Spartacus - 130 - No comment
Mimring - 120 - Against newbies, his fire-line attack is great, but against anyone who's learned not to stand their army in a line, he's just a big target with admirable range.
Marcus - 120 - He's a more effective booster than a lot of the Flag-bearers, so he should be priced up there with the best of them.
Taelord - 120 - No comment
Einar Imperium - 110 - Even with Empress Kiova nearby, they're too vulnerable. But probably about as effective as the other Kyrie squads, in my estimation.
Sudema - 110 - as with everybody else, she' a little too vulnerable to ranged attack. If she's in optimal position, I'd say she's worth 140 points, but she's lucky to get into optimal position for any length of time. So, I'd price her lower based on her value under not-so-optimal conditions.
DW9000 - 110 - Too vulnerable to multiple attacks.
DW8000 - 100 - Too vulnerable to multiple attacks.
Runa - 100 - her barks worse than her bite.
Deathstalkers - 90 - they're hero killers, not squad killers like the Marrden Hounds, and heroes are less of a threat than squads, so they certainly shouldn't be priced more than the Marrden Hounds.
Agent Carr - 90 - He's so close to being worth his points. If he had one more life or a little bit higher normal attack or longer range, he might be worth 100 pts. But he doesn't, so he's not.
Sir Denrick - 90 - Highly conditional special ability, I'd rather see him priced closer to what he's worth when he's not able to use the ability.
Morsbane - 90 - he's a game changer, but still costs too much against ranged squads.
Dund - 90 - No comment.

Uh oh-- another time crunch. Be back later...
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 02:07 PM
rehlers rehlers is offline
 
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I'd probably leave most of the pricing alone, as I think that the game designers have a much better idea than me as to how to keep everything balanced. I'm actually amazed that considering the number of units and the number of different maps / scenarios that can be made, everything is as balanced as it is. You'll always have certain maps and scenarios that lend themselves more to one character. (ie king of the hill games, deathreavers are worth their weight in gold). I've only had a few units that I have not been able to get any use out of for their price (Dund, Spartacus, Zettian Guards come to mind).
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 02:46 PM
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I think rehlers is right. As one who has tried a lot of house rules and some re-values, I've found, over and over again, that the hundreds of hours (I'm assuming from the tales that are told) of play testing and experience of the game designers, that the values we have assigned to squads and heroes are awfully close, if not exactly on target.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 02:56 PM
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Yes, you have to leave pricing alone -- especially for tournaments. There's just no professional basis for altering figures' price. I for instance, feel Taelord would be alright at 120, but I can't imagine why you'd lower the cost of the Sacred Band. I think they are an excellent melee squad who could cost more and still be useful.

Many or your adjustments make sense and I would like to see some of them happen, but I will continue playing by the rules as written because I would never claim to have the knowledge or experience to justify the change.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 02:56 PM
Stealth Dodge Stealth Dodge is offline
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I'm STUNNED that they suggest new prices for tons of new units but left Raelin and the Krav exactly as they are. They are possibly the 2 most underpriced units in the game.

At only 120 points I'd draft Taelord practically every game
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 02:59 PM
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Wow...you think that many cards are off?

There's maybe a card or two that I would tweak ever so slightly, but jeez....that's a lot of units you've listed. I would maybe tweak Spartacus but only if no common gladiators are made. I would have tweaked Raelin, Taelord, and other aura units with a sliding scale, but that ship has sailed and I think the units are generally fine if used correctly.

I totally disagree that that many units are off-price.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 03:13 PM
heroscapewanabchamp heroscapewanabchamp is offline
 
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You've got some series calculations wrong.
Runa 100? kiding me?

If you dont have a ps3........... buy one.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 03:19 PM
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Raelin - 100
Taelord - 150
Dund - 90
Khosumet - 60
Zettian Guard - 60
Obsidian Guard - 80
Krav Maga - 110

That's about it. I'm with those who think that Spartacus' day is yet to come.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 03:28 PM
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Taelord needs to be 125 or 135 that extra 5 to make a mess out of the even points drafting

Or inversely, instead of making him cost less.. .make him more worth the 180... extend is 4 line of sight to 6... heck this could be done with a new minion hero... "extend attack auras sight by 2" or something...
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 03:33 PM
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Taelord 130 0r something (even then I'd probably never use him).

I share the sentiments of many others who posted before me,
I think the pricing is incredible, they've done a good job.

If you think that many units prices should be different, you probably haven't faced enough different people. Certain people bring out certain things about units that I would never have thought of. I like tournaments for that reason, get to see so many strategies, and makes you really say "ooohhhh, that's why everyone like ______ "

::Nathan Hoel::
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 03:52 PM
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Also, some units are simply more scenario specific than others. The Obsidian Guards are absolute monsters if your map lets them actually use their abilities. They might not be useful everywhere, but if you've never seen them tie up units on a lava field until they burned to death, you've never been using them properly.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 04:02 PM
Grim Grim is offline
 
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It's all true and it's all good.

Most of them seem right. And it's impressive that they are so. And that's a good thing for tournaments.

But it also must be the case that some are off. It's impossible that they're all perfect. Change them for house play if you want. Test them, see if you like it. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Evidence: see spider poison's "Power Rankings" (http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ead.php?t=6171). To me that's a good argument that the A's and A+'s are "too cheap" and conversely, the F's and D's are "too expensive"? Seems obvious to me. That doesn't mean that there's an urgent need to change the costs, though. They may be close enough (I think so in most cases).

My list would be shorter than elginb's and would be have the simple goal of discouraging overused figs and encouraging underused ones. So:

over-priced and under-used: TeaLord, Spart-a-cuss, Jotun

Under-priced and over-used: Q9, Krav, Mario Warriors, Deathreavers

Re: Spartacus, I don't think "potential future use" is a good thing for fig's costs. Too bad there's not a way to have the costs adjust as needed later. So for example Sparty should be cheaper in the current environment, and when/if a Gladiator common squad comes out, his cost goes up. (Slap a sticker on him or something?).
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