General Specific Strategy

[Chimpy]

This thread is born of the Which General needs more support? Poll
I am choosing to make a new thread because I have come out with a theory that is should not bog down a simple poll thread.

My theory is that each general’s army has a tentative strategy to it. Each general’s forces focus on a certain way of play. Anybody is free to expound on these theories as they are free to modify them. That being said, here is my anylisis:

Ullar: All about out-maneuvering the opponent. His units move faster and farther than anybody else’s. Ullar also has the best (range wise) shooter in the game. In fact many of Ullar's units have quite a range. Notice how Ullar has two big guys to act as beating bags while everyone else gets in place. Squads like the WoA serve the same purpose. They do not have any real offensive capabilities. But they do hold down the enemy until you can strike with your frenzy crazy units.

This is one of the team strategies commonly recognized by Heroscape players. The combination of Theracus (the fastest guy in the game) and DED (the longest range in the game) is common. The use of Charos as a punching bag while the Aubriens move into position is another common strategy.

Utgar: Swarm. Swarm of the Orcs, swarm of RoboRats, swarm of the Zombies, Swarm of the Marro. Utgar is all about outgunning the opponent. There are a few units who break this mold- the DW's or the Marden Hounds to name a few- but these warriors’ abilities betray them. All of these let you kill a large host with one attack. They are effectively swarming you with one soldier. Most of Utgar's heroes are like this. The ones who are not single unit swarms are simply heroes that benefit the larger swarm system. (Think Tornak or Su-Bak-Na)

Einar: Einar is a tricky one. After looking at these guys for quite a while I have decided that Einar is about self-efficiency and tactics. If you have an all Einar army, you have to be extremely careful where you move your units. You could find parallels with Ullar’s forces here. They are very dependent on where and how you move them. But, unlike Ullar, whose forces get advantages from the enemy’s position, Einar’s warriors benefit from the position of their comrades. Let us take the example of the Sacred Band. By themselves they suck. I mean, they really do suck. But, put them on the field with a bunch of disciplined warriors and their two favorite Warlords and they become a powerhouse. You can see how formation and tactics benefit the Romans and the Greeks pretty easily; it gets harder when you look at the Japanese units.

With the exception of the flag bearer, the Samurai do not get many direct benefits from other Einar units. But, when you look at the indirect benefits gained you can see how they fit this mold. Most of the Samurai have a really small base attack power. A smart enemy will know that the Samurai’s advantage is gained when they are attacked up close. No smart enemy will throw its melee troops against the Samurai when it has an other alternative. Thus, the Samurai commander has to find ways to engage the enemy. It does this through the formations and tactics it engages in. This becomes even more evident with the Samurai Archers. It is all about whom you have next to you and whom you present the most danger to. A Samurai formation actively changes the formation of the enemy. If used smartly, these changes will be for your benefit.

Vydar: Vydar likes to turtle. His strategy is to hunker down, set up a defensive perimeter, and eliminate the enemy before they can get close. Some may say “What ever! Vydar is aggressive and he does not ‘hunker down’ ever.” If you say that, you do not understand what ‘hunker down’ means in Heroscape. We will take the Microcorp as an example. The Microcorp work the best when they are in water, or up high. A Vydar commander is very likely to send these guys there as soon as possible. Once they get there they are there to stay. A similar pattern can be seen with the Gorillinators. They are far better once they have height. Once they get up high they are there to stay. Both units share a common truth: they are simply more powerful when they are far away from the enemy in their respective power-zones. (For lack of a better term.) All Vydar units do is find their power-zone and protect it. Take the Glad/Blast combo we have all come to love. You send the Glads out to set a nice defensive perimeter and you find a nice little area for your Blastatrons. And fire a crazy amount of lasers at the poor chaps who are stuck in the Gladiatron claws.

All of Vydar’s units support this strategy. Note first that almost all of Vydar’s units are ranged. By nature of being ranged they have a defensive nature, but agents of Vydar have an especially defensive focus. Notice how many abilities are focused towards the defense. The Nakita, Krav Maga, Microcorp- all defense based. The ones who are not directly help the defense indirectly do. They support getting height, or putting your guy behind a wall of units. Vydar in short says, “I am going to stand up here where you cannot get me and use my attacks or special powers to take you out.”

Jandar: Now here I am lost. I try to connect the dots but I cannot find any one strategy that unifies Jandarian forces. This guy is a hodgepodge of units. Not just thematically, but mechanically as well.



Now keep in mind that this is not foolproof. There are always a few exceptions; Valguard is a good example of this. He does not fit into the Einar model. But, the rest of the forces under Einar do. Which leads me to my next point:

Jandar needs more troops. As you can see from my comments in the last thread, Jandar, as the main protagonist, needs a larger force. The fact that he hasn’t received any through the last 3 waves and that the units he have are not thematically developed only augments this. Yet some people say that mechanically, more troops should go to Ullar or Vydar so they can catch up.

No. If you think in mechanical terms, Jandar needs the troops. He is the only one who cannot field a cohesive army that works together. As Eclipse said, most of Jandar’s units work better with units from a different faction.

[johnny139]

Genius Chimpy, pure genius. You really put into words the picture each army paints. I can't see any flaws in your reasoning.

[theats]

I think Jandar is about bolstering the defence. He has knights, soldiers that get boosts from staying put, snipers that need hieght, and when they have it, they pwn bad experience there, hes even got defence bolstering troops(raelin), and defense powere troops, the sentinels. however, some troops can go offensive, mainly heroes like drake, denrick, and concan can go either way, but the AE are prime examples of the speacilized forces of jandar..

[Chimpy]

I thought about that. Jandar seems to have defensive leanings. But his play style is not defense oriented. Even units like Raelin have a hard time supporting Jandar troops. She does a much better job helping Vydar agents or Samurai then she does helping the Tarns or Sentinels. In the same spirit, Jandar units have a really hard time protecting their supports.

Any arguments about these guys being defense based fades away when you look at some of their other units. The Mcdirks are the opposite of a defensive force, heroes like Drake and Denrick are made to actively pursue the enemy, and the Jandarian flag bearer makes his units move faster and farther.

Jandar just doesn’t have any over-arching strategy. In fact, I do not think it would be to bold of a statement to say that Jandar is currently the worse general around. I know that if I had to choose one army for a general face off, Jandar would not be it.

[HS ~ KNT]

If I got to choose which army to be against, I would pick Jandar.

I like the descriptions Chimpy, good job.



=^-^=
~Neko

[Stealth Dodge]

I'd say Jandar more than any other Generas has 2 focuses:

Heroes that boost others stats/keep others alive:
Finn/Thogrim/Alistair/Raelin/Kelda/Eldgrim/Gilbert/Concan

Squads with many attacks (has many of the squads with 4 figures in it)
AE, 4th Mass, McDirks, Knights of Weston, Tarn Vikings


Jandar can put together a pretty decent army. As we know Nilfheim, Raelin, 4th Mass, and the AE can all be dominant. Throw in Alistair, Sentinels, Gilbert, Knights of Weston, Finn, Snipers, etc and they can hold their own against any general

[theats]

Originally Posted by Stealth Dodge

I'd say Jandar more than any other Generas has 2 focuses:

Heroes that boost others stats/keep others alive:
Finn/Thogrim/Alistair/Raelin/Kelda/Eldgrim/Gilbert/Concan

Squads with many attacks (has many of the squads with 4 figures in it)
AE, 4th Mass, McDirks, Knights of Weston, Tarn Vikings


Jandar can put together a pretty decent army. As we know Nilfheim, Raelin, 4th Mass, and the AE can all be dominant. Throw in Alistair, Sentinels, Gilbert, Knights of Weston, Finn, Snipers, etc and they can hold their own against any general

a UTGAR swarm of equal size? I say you have a 1000 point battle. have 10 squads of zombies, SBN, 3 maro drones, and marro clones. see who wins out on that one... once i see the new marro stats, who knows...

[Browncoat]

Very nice post, Chimpy!


I would add:

Jandar
These units are mostly about enhancement. It seems like most Jandar heroes have some sort of special ability that strengthens their allies. Some, like Raelin provide additional defense. Others have special powers that aren't effective until the figure is destroyed.

[kenjib]

Jandar's units are actually about going very aggressive. They charge in immediately and attack until dead without retreating or backing off. Even Raelin and Kelda support this by allowing the units they support to be more aggressive. The only real exception to this is the omnicron snipers - but every general has an exception or two.

Charge and attack!

[theats]

[theats]

Originally Posted by kenjib

Jandar's units are actually about going very aggressive. They charge in immediately and attack until dead without retreating or backing off. Even Raelin and Kelda support this by allowing the units they support to be more aggressive. The only real exception to this is the omnicron snipers - but every general has an exception or two.

Charge and attack!

do the 4th mass charge in?

[Aldin]

I would say Jandar is all about support. Every Jandar unit helps to make less flawed other Jandar units. Need a defensive screen? Send out Knights and Sentinels. Need to move them faster? Send out Gilbert. When is Gilbert going to move? Hook him up with the MacDirks. Wanna boost attack? Defense? Movement? Life? We here at Jandar, Inc. have got you covered. Thus Jandar's strategy is always the same - move your units in a manner where they support one another. The closest thing to an exception to this rule is Nilfheim and really, he's only the supporting tank for situations where tanks are needed.

~Aldin, heroically

EDIT Six minutes, Browncoat! Is that too much to ask? /EDIT