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  #1  
Old January 30th, 2023, 08:30 PM
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Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (Justice League)

Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz)



Card PDF

Quote:
NAME = MARTIAN MANHUNTER
IDENTITY = J'ONN J'ONZZ

UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
SPECIES = MARTIAN
CLASS = INVESTIGATOR
PERSONALITY = CURIOUS

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 6

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 370


LEAGUE LINK
Allied Investigators are added to the Justice League faction. During setup, place 1 Justice Marker on this card for each Justice League unit on your team, up to 3. After an activation with Martian Manhunter, you may roll 4 combat dice + 1 for each Justice Marker on this card. For each shield, maneuver an ally up to 4 spaces, during which they gain Stealth.

SHIFTING SHAPES
Martian Manhunter may change his Size at any time. After rolling combat dice for Martian Manhunter, you may remove a Justice Marker from this card to swap skulls and shields.

PHASING 14
Martian Manhunter can move through anything. If an enemy targets Martian Manhunter during its activation, roll a d20. On a 14+, until the next activation, Martian Manhunter cannot be targeted and is not considered engaged to that enemy.

FACTION = JUSTICE LEAGUE
PUBLISHER = DC
KEYWORDS = Telepath
SYMBOLS = HEAT WEAKNESS, FLYING, MENTAL SHIELD, STEALTH, SUPER STRENGTH
WORLDS COLLIDE: One of the last survivors of the civil war that ravaged his home planet of Mars, J'onn J'onnz traveled to Earth and now fights to protect his adoptive home.

Resources and Rulings
  • The suggested figure for this unit is a Heroclix figure: Cosmic Justice #085 / Martian Manhunter
  • See this card's wiki page for synergies and strategies!
Credits Updates
  • N/A

Last edited by japes; August 17th, 2023 at 02:18 PM.
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  #2  
Old January 30th, 2023, 08:37 PM
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Re: Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (Justice League)

Some things to work out still, just figured I'd post this for now.

Not sure what we want to do for his marker thing.

One thought I had, is maybe it's worth sort of merging this and the OG MM, and going with an updated Telepathic Directive spin as his main ability? As Reactionary Phasing is meant to be a more accurate Intangibility, his stats are being lowered to compensate, and he'll have the updated Heat Weakness. All that would be different is TD, so perhaps it's worth considering that usage here in some new fashion, and then whatever 3rd ability we roll with? (I'm not sure granting Mental Shield or clear sight is all that interesting, so I've kinda been leaning away from using those?)
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  #3  
Old January 30th, 2023, 09:49 PM
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Re: Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (Justice League)

Does it make sense for TD to work as like roll 5 + X dice where X is # of JL markers?

Also Mental Shield is a symbol now right. So no space taken for a power.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #4  
Old January 30th, 2023, 09:51 PM
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Re: Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (Justice League)

Also is there desire/a way to work in the unstopable movement into Reactionary Phasing?

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #5  
Old January 30th, 2023, 11:00 PM
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Re: Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (Justice League)

Is there a huge issue with the bones of MM JL(I)? I always found the double turn concept really exciting, it just felt like he cost too much and the marker cap was too high.

Personally I’d be a bit bummed to see MM (I), one of the classic generalist pieces, eaten up into being a faction piece. Not cause I hate factions, but like…as a generalist he’s kind of an exciting thing to build around. As a JL piece, I’m not sure it’s much new? But I get if other people feel different. What Japes is suggesting with the 5+X dice isn’t bad.
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  #6  
Old January 30th, 2023, 11:12 PM
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Re: Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (Justice League)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Is there a huge issue with the bones of MM JL(I)? I always found the double turn concept really exciting, it just felt like he cost too much and the marker cap was too high.

Personally I’d be a bit bummed to see MM (I), one of the classic generalist pieces, eaten up into being a faction piece. Not cause I hate factions, but like…as a generalist he’s kind of an exciting thing to build around. As a JL piece, I’m not sure it’s much new? But I get if other people feel different. What Japes is suggesting with the 5+X dice isn’t bad.
To be clear, I didn't imagine it being a faction power. The marker thing would still be whatever it is, but Telepathic Directive I was thinking would remain mostly the same. I'd probably alter it a hair, like not giving Telepaths an extra space. But I wasn't thinking it'd turn to only JL figures being moved, for instance. He'd also be able to be a great team up piece for Investigators, which could be useful.

My thought process was mostly: We know OG MM is an A/A+ tier design at 300. It's possible that sees him getting a price bump or some sort of change? Then there's Intangibility, which I feel I'd prefer we move away from since it's not really thematic to how MM uses it? (perhaps I'm wrong?) And that leaves his stats and Fire Weakness, which are already going to be shared by the other 2 MMs.

As for the double turns... Idk. To me, we sort of built the faction to compensate for him being undesirable as a turn bonder as he was. Green Arrow, Black Canary, Hawkman, Batman (JL II), GL Guy, and GL Kyle all have ways to essentially turn bond now. (which may feel more like JL anyway, not having it rest on 1's shoulders) And quite frankly, I'd rather see Superman or Batman have a straight up reliable turn bonding, than Martian Manhunter, who doesn't really strike me as the most logical one to be doing it anyway?

I feel he got it because he was the first of the faction and that's how you used to build a faction nearly 10 years ago. You made a turn bonder to center around. But now that we're working with a fresh slate, is that really the best decision, or are we feeling beholden to just stick with something because it was the way it was, in which case, isn't avoiding stuff like that with the benefit of hindsight and better foresight, what this is all about?
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  #7  
Old January 30th, 2023, 11:32 PM
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Re: Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (Justice League)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Is there a huge issue with the bones of MM JL(I)? I always found the double turn concept really exciting, it just felt like he cost too much and the marker cap was too high.

Personally Iíd be a bit bummed to see MM (I), one of the classic generalist pieces, eaten up into being a faction piece. Not cause I hate factions, but likeÖas a generalist heís kind of an exciting thing to build around. As a JL piece, Iím not sure itís much new? But I get if other people feel different. What Japes is suggesting with the 5+X dice isnít bad.
The 5 + x Idea I had thought of for this reason. Sure It's not as good as 12 dice but even in a completely generalist build he'd be rolling 6 dice since he gets one for himself. Plus any investigators or JL he brings in just adds to it.

5 was just a number I threw out as well so that can always be something different.

But in General I agree with all the points made by Arkham here. Especially the Hindsight/Foresight part.

Superman or Batman being the primary turn bonding figures does make more sense to me as well.

I do like the partial bonding stuff that multiple figures in faction are doing even though until Ark just mentioned it I didn't really think about it, but yeah it does feel a little more Justice Leaugey

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #8  
Old January 30th, 2023, 11:40 PM
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Re: Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (Justice League)

So something like this.

Quote:
TELEPATHIC DIRECTIVE
After an Ordered Activation, you may roll 4 +X combat dice, where X equals the number of Justice League Markers on this card. For each shield rolled, maneuver a (Hero figure you control) up to 4 spaces. Figures moved with Telepatic Directive do not take swipes.
Changed it from Blanks to Shields and lowered the number. 12 dice original needing blanks averages 2 figures. 6 dice here averages 2. So in a completely general army he's rolling 5 dice which is just under 2 average. Adding just one JL or Investigator gets him to the same average as OG and if you build JL around him you can increase those odds for more efficiency.

Couldn't remember the wording for this...

Dang that's a lot less words than OG.

Also eliminated the 10 space restriction since I'm pushing for Professor X to not have it, Don't want to be accused of a double standard on Telepaths.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #9  
Old January 31st, 2023, 02:23 AM
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Re: Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (Justice League)

I think you want "ally" there.
Quote:
LEAGUE DIRECTIVE
After an Ordered Activation, you may roll 4 combat dice + a combat die for each Justice Marker on this card. For each shield, maneuver an ally up to 4 spaces, during which they gain Stealth.
Something like that could work. I like that it comes out to 7 when maxed(if we go with 3), equal to the original JL members.

Quote:
LEAGUE LINK
Allied Investigators are added to the Justice League faction. During setup, place 1 Justice Marker on this card for each Justice League figure on your team, up to 3. After an Ordered Activation, you may roll 4 combat dice + a combat die for each Justice Marker on this card. For each shield, maneuver an ally up to 4 spaces, during which they gain Stealth.

REACTIONARY PHASING 12
If an enemy attacks or targets Martian Manhunter, roll a d20. On a 12+, Martian Manhunter cannot be attacked or targeted until the next activation.
Looks like he may have Toxic Resistance as well?
Quote:
Toxic Immunity: In addition, Martian Manhunter's immune system protects him from all toxins and diseases (meaning he is unable to succumb to any earthly poison, disease or infection).
Couple power possibilities:
Quote:
PERFECT ILLUSION
After a figure moves or attacks, you may remove a Justice Marker from this card to undo the results of that move or attack. If you do, place the figure on the space it previously occupied, and any wounds inflicted from its attack are healed. Then you may allow that figure to redo the move action or attack.
Quote:
MARTIAN PHYSIOLOGY
At the start of a turn, you may alter Martian Manhunter's size and/or remove a Justice Marker from this card to add 3 to a stat of Martian Manhunter until the end of the turn.
Would need to adjust stats for that 2nd one, but could be a fun power.
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  #10  
Old January 31st, 2023, 06:52 AM
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Re: Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (Justice League)

I'm into that combination as long as folks feel he still fills the generalist role they dig for him. I think some condensing of our library into some "greatest hits" amalgamations makes some sense if we don't want to spend a full decade on conversion.

League Link, Reactionary Phasing, and Perfect Illusion looks like a fun, very Justice League Martian Manhunter combination to me.

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  #11  
Old January 31st, 2023, 10:21 AM
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Re: Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (Justice League)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
I'm into that combination as long as folks feel he still fills the generalist role they dig for him. I think some condensing of our library into some "greatest hits" amalgamations makes some sense if we don't want to spend a full decade on conversion.

League Link, Reactionary Phasing, and Perfect Illusion looks like a fun, very Justice League Martian Manhunter combination to me.
HA

I was going to say League Link, Reactionary Phasing, and MARTIAN PHYSIOLOGY looked great with adding the Unstoppable Move language to Martian Physiology

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #12  
Old January 31st, 2023, 01:05 PM
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Re: Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (Justice League)

Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of the condensing but I see the reasoning I'd just still want a more standalone version that is concerned with running with others at some point.
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