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View Poll Results: Which of Khosumet's Army do you think is better?
Anubian Wolves 41 58.57%
Wolves of Badru 29 41.43%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old August 25th, 2009, 12:35 PM
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Unit Debate #14 -- Anubian Wolves Vs. Wolves of Badru

Which of Khosumet's Army do you think is better? The pouncing wolves or the furious wolves?



This debate was submitted by tuba.

1. Stats/Special Powers

2. Playability

3. Overall Usefulness

4. Who Would Win Head-To-Head

5. Army Builds

6. Best Strategic Use

Next week:

Spoiler Alert!


MegaSilver, Unit Debate Master

Last edited by MegaSilver; August 26th, 2009 at 08:35 AM.
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  #2  
Old August 25th, 2009, 12:36 PM
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Re: Unit Debate #14 -- Anubian Wolves Vs. Wolves of Badru

Stats/Special Powers:

With Stats, the Anubian Wolves win. The extra defense is killer.
For special powers, they're both unpredictable. But I believe the advantage goes to the WoB. Bonding, even with a bad hero, is still one more attack per turn. And they bond with a cheerleader.

Advantage: Tie

Playability
WoB are much less random, as they can choose when to risk the Pounce Special Attack, and when not too. And, they have a special attack. Even though the Anubians are cheaper...

Advantage: WoB

Overall Usefulness:
Both of these units should take out their points-worth, as long as the dice are nice to you.

Advantage: Tie

Who would win head-to-head?

Not sure. I don't feel like using the Matchup Calculator. To lazy to find it.

Advantage: Tie (because Rednax is too lazy to use the MC calculator)

Army builds:

Anubians x5 375
Khosumet 75
Dumutef Guards x2 50
Total 500

WoB x5 400
Khosumet 75
Dumutef Guard 25

I suppose Khosumet isn't needed any either armies, but with that many wolves, another squad probably isn't needed either.

Advantage: Tie; both can be used in Devourer and non-devourer builds.

Best Strategic Use: The Anubians are best used as the main force of the army, where the WoB can be used with or without Khosumet, as either the main force, or as a support unit.

Winner: WoB, although I voted for the Anubians.

Oh, and MegaSilver, you misspelled Usefulness.

Last edited by rednax; August 25th, 2009 at 12:50 PM.
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  #3  
Old August 25th, 2009, 12:43 PM
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Re: Unit Debate #14 -- Anubian Wolves Vs. Wolves of Badru

The Badru are SO much fun to play in casual games. Their suicidal attack is hilarious. Plus they bond, which is semi-useful. Too bad there is only one darklord.

I don't own the Anubians but I think they would perform better than the Badru. I mean, they have a pretty decent shot at getting 4+ attack dice, although when the d20 fails you...

So, at the end of the day, it comes down to, do you like risking it all on the d20 or do you like risking it all on the combat dice? I prefer the Badru because I have actually played with them and a little more is guaranteed with them than with the anubians.
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  #4  
Old August 25th, 2009, 12:51 PM
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Re: Unit Debate #14 -- Anubian Wolves Vs. Wolves of Badru

The WoB are so much more fun to play with. Plus they have some bonding which could very well be useful in the future. I love playing these guys, even though I usually play a house rule that they can pounce on anybody just to make it more fun.

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  #5  
Old August 25th, 2009, 12:52 PM
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Re: Unit Debate #14 -- Anubian Wolves Vs. Wolves of Badru

This is a tough one, both units have very different uses. Anubians are best used to take down stuff with high def/life. I usually use the Badru to thin out any ranged commons before moving in with my heavy hitters as pounce is usually effective against the low def of ranged commons.

Stats:
I like the 4 def of the Anubians. I like pounce as a special ability. Badru has bonding, even though it's only with Khotsumet. I give the slight edge to Badru.

Playability:
I think both are playable, but not highly competitive. Wash.

Overall Usefullness:
Like I said above, they have different uses, both equally important. Wash.

Head to Head:
This is a tough one too. Pounce is not great against 4 def, but it does allow for first strike chances. A lot depends on the Fury roll. I give a slight edge to Badru

Army Builds:
Anubians work well with ranged support, Badru can work ok in an otherwise all melee army. Wash

Best Strategic Use:
How many times do you waste a good Unleashed Fury roll, only to roll low when you really need it? If your opponent has a swarmy army, Anubians have trouble, they need good hero targets. Badru I think are effective against a greater % of units, even though they stink against large stuff. A couple of sacrificial pounces vs. a tough medium hero can be sometimes effective. Slight advantage Badru.

Score: Badru: 3, Anubians 0.
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  #6  
Old August 25th, 2009, 12:58 PM
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Re: Unit Debate #14 -- Anubian Wolves Vs. Wolves of Badru

I think bonding makes them a better choice and pounce is better than a bad 20-sider roll.

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  #7  
Old August 25th, 2009, 01:14 PM
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Re: Unit Debate #14 -- Anubian Wolves Vs. Wolves of Badru

In my opinion, the Anubian Wolves are much better, their stats are better, and their special is stronger. The Badru's bonding is what makes them worth more points, but with Khosumet being the only darklord currently, that's not a big enough help.

To use the bulleted list... or whatever...

1. Stats/Special Powers
Move for both is equal, both are melee(ish). The Anubian's attack is variable, but, assuming Khosumet, the Anubian's will not die and have a high chance of their attack being equal to or greater than the Badru's attack. The Badru's have bonding, assume Khosumet. Khosumet does not help the Badru's enough for the bonding to matter (for now). The Badru's pounce ability is a risky move and not worth the risk (I've found) against most figures (I should say I need more experience with them). The Anubian's defense is higher.

Big edge to Anubians

2. Playability
Both are just as playable as the other, but both are difficult to play well.

No edge

3. Overall Usefullness
With the Anubian's being more aggressive and of higher defense, they cause more damage/hold defenses better than the Badru

Edge to Anubians

4. Who Would Win Head-To-Head
Although the Badru do have range, 3 is not enough to have a legitimate first strike and five attack vs four defense is a tough pull. Anubians have better stats.

Edge to Anubians

5. Army Builds
Both only "need" one other figure, Khosumet. Otherwise they both fit in similar armies...

No edge

6. Best Strategic Use
Aggressive aggression, that's the Anubians game. The Badru's... not so aggressive, and more strategic...

No real edges

Anubians score big time

But, out of the two, the Badru are my favorite. They just look cooler. And I like to be more strategic than aggressive.

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  #8  
Old August 25th, 2009, 03:42 PM
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Re: Unit Debate #14 -- Anubian Wolves Vs. Wolves of Badru

Why such a short debate?

Last edited by rednax; August 25th, 2009 at 03:56 PM.
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  #9  
Old August 25th, 2009, 04:36 PM
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Re: Unit Debate #14 -- Anubian Wolves Vs. Wolves of Badru

This is not a debate I would have expected, but I like it alot. They are both units I've tried, though it feels so long ago, and I have since given them little thought. I guess it's time to start looking back again.

Before I get to the bullets and numbers I just want to make it clear that I will be looking at them both with Khosumet in both their armies.
1. Stats/Special Powers: Having one more defense, the Anubian Wolves hold a greater staying power than their 4-on-the-floor pack mates, so half of this argument goes to the Anubians. Both of their special powers are offensive, the Badru can pounce and bond, while the Anubians simply go nuts and kill stuff. I tend to look at the Badru abilities as a disadvantage, pounce can get you killed, and bonding makes Khosumet want to come forward. Khosumet is just to weak to be brought forward, so bonding is only really used when he gets in trouble. The Anubian ability is wonderful! On a 6 or higher (please see above for disagreements here) they have the same or better attack than the Badru! That is a 20% chance to not be very effective, but the way I see it if you pounce you have a much better chance of doing a face plant and dying.

Advantage - Anubian Wolves

2. Playability: The wolves of Badru simply do not have the staying power required to be as playable, and their good even point cost doesn't match up with their hero's bad odd point cost making the two less compatible. The Anubians do not suffer this point cost mismatch.

Advantage - Anubians

3. Overall Usefulness: While I don't recommend it for tournament play, Anubians can be used as a melee screen that can sometimes fight back harder than whatever glass-cannon they are protecting. This is bad news for your opponent, now they need to decide to attack the potentially greater threat of the Anubians or silence the greater ranged threat from afar.

Badru are fast assassins, use pounce to take down figures on glyphs and weakened heroes. Unfortunately they just cost to much compared to other assassins who have better survivability.

Advantage - Anubians

4. Who Would Win Head-To-Head: I have no idea, when I played them they were part of the same army, seeing as I lost those couple games can I say that no one wins?

Advantage - N/A

5. Army Builds: Now I need to get out my cards, I'll be right back... Okay, got them:
With a core of:
Anubian Wolves x3
Khosumet the Darklord
300/10
you can add in:
Dumutef Guard x2
Shades of Bleakewood x2
550/20. Unfortunately that is alot of melee and melee based synergy.
Or
Marro Warriors
Me-Burq-Sa
Cyprien Esenwein
550/17. Less melee, adds some range, I kinda like it.
Or
Wolves of Badru x2
Dumutef Guard x4
560/24. I'm not a fan of this one.

Advantage - N/A

6. Best Strategic Use:
Anubians: Melee screen/kill squad.
Badru: Assassins that take out low life heroes, or squad figures on glyphs.
They both have different uses, but the Anubians use will be seen more than the Badru.

Advantage - Anubians

Anubians are an order marker nightmare, but the Badru aren't nearly as durable. I'd rather have a hard time deciding what to move, than have an army that leaps to their death only to have an expensive funeral that wasn't worth it.

Winner - Anubian Wolves

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  #10  
Old August 25th, 2009, 04:48 PM
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Post Re: Unit Debate #14 -- Anubian Wolves Vs. Wolves of Badru

As with the last debate, I don't have any real experience with these units, and the Wolves of Badru are very hard to theoryscape, but I'm going to see what I can come up with anyway.

The Wolves of Badru seem to me to have the same problem as Deathwalker 7000--they're just too expensive for a suicide unit. They are 80 points for 3 figures, the same price as Shaolin monks and more expensive than Aubriens or Mohicans. They will often get first strike, but may die doing so and if not will very likely die immediately afterwards. As for Darklord bonding, Khosumet does nothing for these guys. I can argue that Khosumet is worth 75 points (although many people may not agree)because of the benefits he gives the Anubians, but he is worthless as an attacking figure. Over the course of his lifetime, he should only be able to give one or two attacks of 3 before his pathetic defense and life run out. That's just not worth the extra points for the Wolves to have bonding. The only ability of Khosumet's that the Wolves can even use is his attack enhancement, but using the Wolves' normal attack is just a waste of that figure. Pounce is the only reason to draft the Wolves of Badru, and Khosumet can't help pounce at all.

The Anubians on the other hand fit very well with Khosumet. His enhancement makes Unleashed Fury much better, especially the doubled chance of +8 attack and the negated chance of killing a wolf. The Anubians are very chancy units, but I don't have a problem with that, and with the right roles, they can kill anything. They also have the magic 4 defense, which gives them better survivability.

What it all comes down to is: when I first saw the Anubians' card, I thought, '3 attacks of 9!!!' When I first saw the Wolves of Badru's card, I thought 'Who wants to bond with Khosumet?'

Perhaps the wolves would be better if there was a Darklord of Badru, but that seems unlikely as they seem to be just an attempt to make people use Khosumet more.

-Quintaton16

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Old August 25th, 2009, 06:03 PM
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Re: Unit Debate #14 -- Anubian Wolves Vs. Wolves of Badru

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaSilver View Post
Which of Khosumet's Army do you think is better? The pouncing wolves or the furious wolves?




1. Stats/Special Powers


Tough one. The WoB have great versatility, either bonding with Khosumet for 4 attacks per turn with an easy chance of setting up the Badru for 4 attack die, or the ability to leap at opponents, even if they are a few spaces above or below you. Anubians potential is deadly, the the extra defense die is key. Both powers involve chance, but if you have Khosumet in your army, the Anubian's power has no deadly consequences.

I'd rate them about the same, and like both, but I'll give the nod to the Anubians because I prefer to send them out first as the frontline take down force, with the Badru being support units.

Quote:
2. Playability


I run both together most of the time, so I consider them about equal in playability. Both involve risk but have high payoff when things go your way. I'm torn a little here: on the one hand I'll say Badru, because you can choose not to take the risk and you always have a stable 3-4 attack out of them. On the other hand I've seen timely rolls of 19-20 with only one squad of wolves left just completely turn a game around.


Quote:
3. Overall Usefullness


Badru make Khosumet somewhat useful. They also make it so that I can move Khosumet without wasting an order marker on him, getting him into position not only for the Badru, but for the Anubians as well, who get an extra attack die out of him. Anubians are always good hero killers though, and thier potential is always on an opponents mind. I'll say slight nod to the Badru.

Quote:
4. Who Would Win Head-To-Head


Hard to say. 5 attack vs. 4 defense is in favor of the attack, but even a decent fury roll puts the Anubians in a good position to tear through the Badru. Even.

5. Army Builds

Some that I've played:

Khosumet (75)
Wolves of Badru x2 (160)
Anubian wolves x2 (150)
Dumutef Guard (25)

1x more either Anubians or Badru (whichever)

485-490: 17 Figures

Khosumet (75)
Wolves of Badru x2 (160)
Anubian Wolves x1 (75)
Venoc Warlord (120)
Aubrien Archers x1 (70)

500: 14 figures
Venoc warlord is Relentless, benefitting from Khosumet, while Aubriens provide range and get the frenzy bonus.

Khosumet (75)
Wolves of Badru x2 (160)
Krug (120)
Arrow Gruts x3 (120)
Swog Rider (25)

500 points: 18 Figures
Krug is Relentless. Use Arrow Gruts to bond Krug into the frontlines. Krug is the main offensive force and will always be on your opponents mind while Badru and Khosumet move up under cover of Arrow Gruts.

Quote:
6. Best Strategic Use


They need to be played kind of like the Steamroller. Don't send single waves. Move everyone up, with Anubians taking point ahead of Khosumet. Don't keep Khosumet back though. Move him right up there, get your 4 attacks per turn with the Badru. Position him to enhance both Badru and Anubians during thier turn. If your opponent takes time out to kill Khosumet, it means he wasted one or more attacks that could have killed your wolves, and its not that big a loss for you. So keep the pressure up. If you have your opponent up against a wall, so to speak, with your collective force, you have plenty of options. Options reduces the effect of luck. Other relentless forces like Krug, Venoc Warlord and Vipers, and Minions of Utgar are all options for reinforcing a wolf army.
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Old August 25th, 2009, 06:34 PM
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Re: Unit Debate #14 -- Anubian Wolves Vs. Wolves of Badru

I love the Anubians. Playing them is like going to the casino. "That next roll is going to be a 20, I can feel it!"

"Come on...."

"2"

"That next roll is going to be a 20, I can feel it!"

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