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Old July 16th, 2009, 02:33 PM
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Official Units Revisited

EDIT: I now play HS using a couple of key rule changes and have redesigned ALL units in light of the new rules. An explanation of the two, simple rule changes and new units can be found here.


The purpose of this thread is to give an interpretation of how official Heroscape units could be customized in such as way as to 1) make virtually all units competitive enough that they are not "dust collectors", 2) reduce the variability in the value of all units relative to their point-costs; in other words, boost weak units and nerf overly powerful units in some form or another, and 3) to introduce desirable changes to the metagame.

Most customized units have only had very minor changes made, such as a single stat value modification or adjustment of point-cost. Others have had powers tweaked to some extent or even completely redesigned. The minor changes are ones that I believe many Heroscapers would agree are good changes, whereas the larger changes might be more polarizing.

A few of the more thoroughly re-designed cards may have been generally balanced as they were, but were changed despite that for other reasons. For example, the Capuan Gladiators and Spartacus were changed because they were extremely one-dimensional and "cookie-cutter" - my group felt we could make better use of the figures with an alternate version.

Again, these are just my personal interpretations and I'm happy if you like them and want to adopt some of them, if you don't like them and want to keep the game the same, or if it just gets you thinking other ways "fix" a unit or create a new custom.

Before I go any further, let me add this disclaimer: There is virtually an infinite number of ways that Heroscape units can be created, and several different alternatives might be equally valid for various reasons. I also respect players who prefer little to no customization of the game, but my friends and I prefer these changes for our own house games.

I welcome any constructive comments and criticism, you own ideas for changes that enhance the balance of the game, notification of any typos or errors, etc.

Heroscape Unit List

For this list, the original power ranking, according to spider_poison, will be listed at the far left. My own projected power ranking within this new, customized system will eventually be projected to the far right.


A+ 4th Mass. Line A-
Spoiler Alert!

A+ Deathreavers A-
Spoiler Alert!

A+ Major Q9 A-
Spoiler Alert!

A+ Marro Stingers B
Spoiler Alert!

A+ Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-ROTV A
Spoiler Alert!

A Blastatrons (60*)
Spoiler Alert!

A Gladiatrons (80*)
Spoiler Alert!

A Isamu (10)
A Kaemon Awa(120)
A Knights of Weston(70*)
A Krav Maga Agents (100) A
Spoiler Alert!

A Laglor (110)
Spoiler Alert!

A Marro Warriors (50)
A Major Q10 (150)
A Nilfheim (185) A-
Spoiler Alert!

A Sir Gilbert (105) A-
Spoiler Alert!

A- 10th Regiment of Foot (75*)
A- Agent Skahen (120)
A- Airborne Elite (110)
A- Alastair MacDirk (110)
A- Braxas (210)
A- Cyprien Esenwein (150)
A- Eldgrim the Viking Champion (30)
A- Krug (120)
A- Marcu Esenwein (20)
A- Marcus Decimus Gallus (100)
A- Me-Burq-Sa (50)
A- Minions of Utgar (110*)
A- Roman Legionnaires (50*)
A- Sonya Esenwein (45)
A- Zelrig (185)
A- Zetacron (60)
B+ Arkmer (50)
B+ Arrow Gruts (40*)
B+ Heavy Gruts (70*)
B+ Microcorp Agents (100*)
B+ Otonashi (10) B
Spoiler Alert!

B+ Sentinels of Jandar (110*)
B+ Sgt. Drake Alexander-SOTM (170)
Spoiler Alert!

B+ Swog Rider (25*)
B Aubrien Archers (70*)
B Blade Gruts (40*)
B Brunak (110)
B Charos (210)
B Concan the Kyrie Warrior (80) B+
Spoiler Alert!

B Crixus (90)
B Finn the Viking Champion (80)
B Fyorlag Spiders (40*)
B Grimnak (120)
B Guilty McCreech (30)
B James Murphy (75)
B Marrden Hounds (90*)
B Marrden Nagrubs (30*)
B Marro Drones (50*)
B Marro Hive (160) B
Spoiler Alert!

B Nakita Agents (120)
B Ne-Gok-Sa (90)
B Ninjas of the Northern Wind (110)
B Omnicron Snipers (100*)
B Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-SOTM (120)
B Sacred Band (50*)
B Sonlen (160) B+
Spoiler Alert!

B Sujoah (185)
B Syvarris (100)
B Tagawa Samurai (120)
B Theracus (40)
B Tor-Kul-Na (220)
B Ulginesh (150) B
Spoiler Alert!

B Venoc Vipers (40*)
B Venoc Warlord (120)
B Warriors of Ashra (50*) B
Spoiler Alert!

B Wolves of Badru (80*) B
Spoiler Alert!

B Zombies of Morindan (60*)
B- Agent Carr (100) B
Spoiler Alert!

B- Anubian Wolves (75*) B+
Spoiler Alert!

B- Armoc Vipers (65*) B
Spoiler Alert!

B- Ashigaru Harquebus (60*)
B- Chardris (90)
B- Emirroon (80)
B- Jorhdawn (100)
B- Jotun (225) B-
Spoiler Alert!

B- Izumi Samurai (60) B+
Spoiler Alert!

B- Kee-Mo-Shi (130) B
Spoiler Alert!

B- Kozuke Samurai (100)
B- Kyntela Gwyn (20)
B- MacDirk Warriors (80*) B+
Spoiler Alert!

B- Mimring (150)
B- Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider (50)
B- Ornak (100)
B- Sgt. Drake Alexander-ROTV (110)
B- Sir Denrick (100) B+
Spoiler Alert!

B- Sir Dupuis (150) B
Spoiler Alert!

B- Sir Hawthorne (90)
B- Su-Bak-Na (160) B
Spoiler Alert!

B- Tagawa Samurai Archers (65*) B (with new Hatamoto Taro!)
B- Tarn Viking Warriors (50) B+
Spoiler Alert!

B- Wo-Sa-Ga (135) B
Spoiler Alert!

C+ Deathwalker 8000 (130) B-
Spoiler Alert!

C+ Deathwalker 9000 (140) B (though unchanged, DW9k is improved by new Zettian Guards and DW7k)
C+ Dzu-Teh (75*)
C+ Empress Kiova (90) B+ (considering EI's reduced cost)
Spoiler Alert!

C+ Deathstalkers (100*)
C+ Grok Riders (130*) B
Spoiler Alert!

C+ Gurei-Oni (100) B-
Spoiler Alert!

C+ Iskra Esenwein (50) B (unchanged but now bonds with Rechets)
C+ Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan (65)
C+ Master Win Chiu Woo (140)
C+ Rechets of Bogdan (50) B
Spoiler Alert!

C+ Saylind the Kyrie Warrior (80) B
Spoiler Alert!

C+ Thorgrim the Viking Champion (80)
C+ Tornak (100) B
Spoiler Alert!

C+ Valguard (110) B+ (see Tarn Vikings as well)
Spoiler Alert!

C Ashigaru Yari (40*) B-
Spoiler Alert!

C Dumutef Guard (25*) B-
Spoiler Alert!

C Elite Onyx Vipers (100)
C Gorillinators (90*) B-
Spoiler Alert!

C Major X17(100)
Spoiler Alert!

C Marro Drudge (50*)
C Morsbane (100) B+
Spoiler Alert!

C Roman Archers (55*) B-
Spoiler Alert!

C Shades of Bleakewoode (100*)
C Taelord the Kyrie Warrior (180)
C The Einar Imperium (140*) B
Spoiler Alert!

C Zettian Guards (70) B (see Deathwalker 7000)
Spoiler Alert!

C- Deadeye Dan (60)
C- Kato Katsuro (200) C+
Spoiler Alert!

C- Khosumet the Darklord (75) B
Spoiler Alert!

C- Moriko (110) B
Spoiler Alert!

C- Parmenio (90)
Spoiler Alert!

C- Retiarius (90) B-
Spoiler Alert!

C- Shaolin Monks (80*) B-
Spoiler Alert!

C- Warden 816 (90) B- (see Zettian Guards, Deathwalker 7000 for assessment)
Spoiler Alert!

D+ Acolarh (110) B
Spoiler Alert!

D+ DŁnd (110) B-
Spoiler Alert!

D+ Kelda the Kyrie Warrior (80)B-
Spoiler Alert!

D+ Obsidian Guards (100*)
D+ Runa (120) B+
Spoiler Alert!

D+ Shiori (60) B+
Spoiler Alert!

D+ Sudema (140)
Spoiler Alert!

D+ Templar Cavalry (120*) B
Spoiler Alert!

D Spartacus (200) B
Spoiler Alert!

D- Deathwalker 7000 (100) B
Spoiler Alert!

F Hatamoto Taro (130) B+
Spoiler Alert!

NR Mohican River Tribe B+ (assessment includes consideration of custom Aquilla Flagbearer to be revealed soon)
Spoiler Alert!

NR Omnicron Repulsors B
Spoiler Alert!

NR Tul-Bak-Ra B+ (might be A if Stingers were unchanged)
Spoiler Alert!

NR Axegrinders of the Burning Forge B
Spoiler Alert!

NR Kumiko C+
Spoiler Alert!


NR Capuan GladiatorsB+
Spoiler Alert!


EDIT 1:
Updated and improved Shadowstep 13 on Moriko and Otonashi after receiving useful insight from Melwing17 (+rep coming later).

EDIT 2:
Modified Deathwalker 7000 after being inspired by 1Mmirg's Deathcommander custom.

EDIT 3:
Added army card for Saylind the Kyrie Warrior.

EDIT 4: Added army card for Valguard. Consult Tarn Viking Warriors in conjunction with Valguard.

EDIT 5: Added projected power rankings for customized figures.

EDIT 6: Modified 4th Mass' defensive ability, Hold the Line, to function similarly to Roman Archers' Arrow Volley Special Attack; Modified Shiori, Omnicron Repulsors, Mohican River Tribe, and Kumiko. Added army card for Dumutef Guard (now a Darklord) and Kelda.

EDIT 7: Lowered cost of Tul-Bak-Ra, Finn, and Thorgrim. Modified Templar Cavalry and Axegrinders. Added cards for Spartacus and Capuan Gladiators (not that they were broken, but they were very one-dimensional and not very strategically interesting to my play-group).

EDIT 8: Changed Shiori to a 10-point ninja to provide an Isamu alternative. Changed Omnicron Repulsors.

A few closing comments:
Some have suggested that the easiest way to fix "broken" units is simply to adjust point-costs without modifying stats or powers. While this does mitigate the imbalances somewhat, I do not feel that it thoroughly balances the game nor is it even an appropriate modification in many instances. Take the G'nators or Deathwalkers for example - changing point costs could easily make either of these mediocre units exceptionally powerful. The problem isn't their point-costs - it's the actual mechanics of the units themselves.

Last edited by rouby44; January 2nd, 2011 at 12:52 AM.
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  #2  
Old July 16th, 2009, 02:39 PM
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Re: Exhaustive Revamp of Heroscape Official Units

Interesting idea, though I'm generally fond of the units as they are, I can appreciate the work you're putting into this.

One direct comment- you've made it so Moriko cannot even be used if you don't have another tricky figure. Literally. Was this intentional?

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Old July 16th, 2009, 02:53 PM
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Re: Exhaustive Revamp of Heroscape Official Units

Wow, that was obviously a lot of work. This is going to take some time to digest, but so far I'm liking the ideas here, esp. Spartacus, Acolarh, Runa, Dund... (I started at the bottom, working my way up).
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Old July 16th, 2009, 02:54 PM
Bonecrusher Bonecrusher is offline
 
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Re: Exhaustive Revamp of Heroscape Official Units

I prefer Heroscape to roubyscape.

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  #5  
Old July 16th, 2009, 03:09 PM
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rouby44 rouby44 is offline
 
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Re: Exhaustive Revamp of Heroscape Official Units

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Originally Posted by Bonecrusher View Post
I prefer Heroscape to roubyscape.
That's fine, as I said multiple times in my post.
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  #6  
Old July 16th, 2009, 03:10 PM
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Re: Exhaustive Revamp of Heroscape Official Units

Baffling. By giving your customs the same names as existing units you've...? What exactly? Seems a lot like a solution in search of a problem to me.

~Aldin, who plays with pretty much everything at home

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Old July 16th, 2009, 03:13 PM
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Re: Exhaustive Revamp of Heroscape Official Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melwing17 View Post
Interesting idea, though I'm generally fond of the units as they are, I can appreciate the work you're putting into this.

One direct comment- you've made it so Moriko cannot even be used if you don't have another tricky figure. Literally. Was this intentional?
It is intentional - you would have to draft a tricky figure to be able to Shadowstep her onto the board, though I'm definitely open to any suggestions for improvement you may have.

I didn't want Moriko or Otonashi (I gave her the same ability) to be able to be placed just anywhere as if they were Airborne Elites. The purpose of the Shadowstep is to allow them to get within attacking range without having to spend several orders getting them there through normal movement, and I thought the placement adjacent to a tricky figure was a good restriction.

EDIT: Unless you or someone else has a better idea, I will add that when Shadowstepping, Moriko can either placed adjacent to a Tricky figure you control or on an empty space in your start zone. Thank you for alerting me to the drawback the first version of the ability had.

Last edited by rouby44; July 16th, 2009 at 04:03 PM.
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Old July 16th, 2009, 03:16 PM
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Re: Exhaustive Revamp of Heroscape Official Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin View Post
Baffling. By giving your customs the same names as existing units you've...? What exactly? Seems a lot like a solution in search of a problem to me.

~Aldin, who plays with pretty much everything at home
In my home games with friends, these units replace the official ones of the same name, so there is no confusion in that regard.

I think that the reason I prefer these modified units while others prefer the official units despite some of the official units being especially weak or strong, is that my games are between myself and other adult Heroscape experts who enjoy a challenging strategic face-off, whereas some others enjoy the more casual games with more unpredictability and players with a motley of play-styles.
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Old July 16th, 2009, 03:36 PM
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Re: Exhaustive Revamp of Heroscape Official Units

I find it interesting that you changed units that very few have a problem with (including A+ units)...but one of the units that most feel needs help, you changed his Class (AKA Dund)...

Other than that...many of these did not need re-vamps...some look under-costed...other look broken....This is not Heroscape if you change all the cards...then it becomes another game.

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Old July 16th, 2009, 03:36 PM
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Re: Exhaustive Revamp of Heroscape Official Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by rouby44 View Post
I think that the reason I prefer these modified units while others prefer the official units despite some of the official units being especially weak or strong, is that my games are between myself and other adult Heroscape experts who enjoy a challenging strategic face-off, whereas some others enjoy the more casual games with more unpredictability and players with a motley of play-styles.
Yup, you're right. I hate that challenging strategic stuff.

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Old July 16th, 2009, 03:42 PM
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Re: Exhaustive Revamp of Heroscape Official Units

I think that many of the changes are well considered. Generally, I would just give someone a point advantage if they took an army with lower ranked figures. But whatever makes the game more enjoyable for the player is good.
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Old July 16th, 2009, 03:44 PM
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Re: Exhaustive Revamp of Heroscape Official Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBeeblebrox View Post
I find it interesting that you changed units that very few have a problem with (including A+ units)...but one of the units that most feel needs help, you changed his Class (AKA Dund)...

Other than that...many of these did not need re-vamps...some look under-costed...other look broken....This is not Heroscape if you change all the cards...then it becomes another game.

The units at the very top and very bottom of the power rankings are the ones that need the most tweaking in order to achieve the goals I stated at the very top of my original post. A+ units are A+ because they are extremely strong compared to the average Heroscape unit.

I changed Dund's general and class to allow him to bond with the Fyorlag Spiders. As a former Hunter, it's not a big thematic leap to make Dund a Predator and simultaneously fix him with bonding to a relatively weak squad.
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