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HeroScape General Discussion General discussions of packaging, terrain, components, etc. If it doesn't fit in any other official category, put it here.


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Old May 26th, 2009, 04:42 PM
jaamartin jaamartin is offline
 
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Religious Debate for or against HS

I was reading the posts here, and was making the following reply when it occured to me that it did not fit the original post. Soo... I am cross-linking here to a new topic to keep the other topic.. um.. on topic.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 04:48 PM
jaamartin jaamartin is offline
 
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Re: Religious Debate for or against HS

Into:

Where to begin... First, great topic, and the following is in no way to be viewed, read, or interpreted as an attack on anyone regardless of how guilty it may make one's conscience... Second, I think it has gone a little off topic a little and will leave it at that.
Now for the meat of my reply...

I personally have a conflict with whether or not to continue playing HS due to my family. Yes... Southern Baptist.... Yes... The game is evil because it has demonic forces at work... read that as it is written.. not images.. not themes.. but AT WORK....

Background:

There are numerous agents out in the world that are vying for your soul. They will do anything, become anyone, and will present themselves in the most attractive and seductive form possible to steal you away from God. They do this in little steps at a time. They make cartoons that start off early giving our youth the mental images that objects/theories of current religious beliefs are not valid*1, and therefore when the child is old enough to make decisions for themselves they will have a more open mind to doing what "feels good" rather than "what is right by God".
Argument:
Look at it this way… The majority of the commercials on after 9:00 PM on the weekdays, and often times before noon on the weekends! Cialus, Viagra, Red-Bull, the Axe commercials, Call now for free adult chat services {adult my baboon butt cheeks! By the look of the women on the phone it is more than “adult”, 18+ years or older… I wonder how many old man heart attacks they have been party too…}. Yes, I am considered an “ultra-conservative” on a lot of things, but this DOES lead to the wrong mental images for someone of faith, especially children.
Question:
With this argument in mind, how can one justify HS as being playable by anyone? I can agree that the eyes are the most vulnerable part of faith, they are for me, but I grew up around D&D, EarthDawn, Stratego, shoot, even Monoploy is evil based upon the argument given above. Is this just a case of, “Wear the armor of God” and make sure there are no broken straps when you play these games?
Advice Seeking:
I know they are just games, so don’t get into a “Freak! It is a game” arguments… I just don’t know how to argue that point to my family, let alone use that as an argument for my 11-year old. Or my 5-year old for that case who wants to do everything that Daddy does and wants to win any game against her older sister!
I understand that every child is different, but when do you stand your ground on something when the argument is approaching fanaticism versus intelligent debating? The argument, at least to me, is valid as it was presented because it is not just a matter of what a figure looks like, but what it is doing to a person. It numbs the mind to what the religious side of things link to the physical appearance of the figure. Therefore, Marro’s or Zombies are evil because in religious visage, they are correlated to evil, and by accepting them as “only a game” then they are allowing other evil things to become acceptable in one’s life as they are breaking down the lines of what is good and evil.
Conclusion:
I am not sure if I have presented the argument, and my overall questions about the argument intelligently, or completely. I have re-read this post several times, changed a few things, and now am so confused I am afraid of making the whole thing complete gibberish that it would be unreadable and give the appearance that I have been mind-flayed*2. I am comfortable in my faith to be able to play these games, but what of my children? Is it a real indicator that I am having conflicts of faith that I find it acceptable?


Footnotes:
*1 The pink cat thing that was in the Hanna-Barbara cartoons. "Exit Stage Right Even" which was ALWAYS stated in a masculine voice but sounds WAY too feminine coming from a man!
*2 This term was coined before World of Warcraft in the Pen-And-Paper RPG of EarthDawn. It was probably used before even that though so.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 04:50 PM
jschild jschild is offline
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Re: Religious Debate for or against HS

I personally think it's silly to avoid playing with "scary" or "demonic" figures.

They are just that, figures, and will not corrupt anyone that is mentally stable to any degree. They will not cause someone to start worshipping the devil, practice evil, or any standard silliness.

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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:01 PM
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Re: Religious Debate for or against HS

Growing up, some of my favorite toys were the original Masters of the Universe (He-Man) toys.

•Big buff He-Man never made me feel like I was inadequate because I didn't look like him.
•Skeletal-faced sorcerer Skeletor never made me want to sell my soul and begin a life of witchcraft.
•Good guys fighting bad guys never made me want to kill my neighbors.
•'Over sexualized' figures like Tela or the Sorceress didn't turn me in to a sexual deviant.

My point? I was raised in a conservative home with strong religious moors. Playing with these toys in no way caused me to deviate from those foundations. I truly believe that anyone who in all honesty is affected by toys or a game in this fashion would have been affected by some other thing if not for that product. In otherwords, I believe that the fault and defect lie in the individual, not the product. This isn't to say that as a parent I do not make judgement about what is or is not permissable to my children, its just that I do not believe that the imagery of this game nor its back story are in anyway damaging.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:04 PM
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Re: Religious Debate for or against HS

I think it is silly it is to say that Heroscape has "demonic forces at work". To say that there are people out there designing games and cartoons as part of one grand scheme to steal your soul is simply maniacal conspiracy theory.

Heroscape is a fantasy game that draws on history, myths, legends, and folklore from around the globe. But Hasbro and WotC do not have a religious agenda - they are simply in the entertainment business. If someone has problems with zombies or vampires or whatever it is being in the game, then they can choose not to play.

Personally, if I had young children and I was concerned about the content of the game, I would ask them how they felt about particular figures. If some part of the game makes them feel uneasy or gives them nightmares, then perhaps it's not for them. However, I doubt thathappens very often.

I think it's best for adults to allow children to learn to think for themselves, rather than micro-managing their every ethical dillema, especially when it comes to such a trivial matter as a 1"-tall plastic figure looking "evil". How else are they going to develop their own conscience?
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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:06 PM
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Re: Religious Debate for or against HS

jaamartin,

That way lies madness. Since the world is corrupted, what can exist in it that does not have the potential to entice in some fashion? From the Christian perspective the problem isn't so much the things around us (including Heroscape), but our response to those things. It seems to me that Christians should follow Christ's example of spending time with non-Christians engaging in normal activities. Playing games is one of those normal activities.

~Aldin, who has actually thought a lot about this type of stuff

He either fears his fate too much
or his desserts are small
That dares not put it to the touch
to gain or lose it all
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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:07 PM
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Re: Religious Debate for or against HS

Quote:
Originally Posted by jschild View Post
I personally think it's silly to avoid playing with "scary" or "demonic" figures.

They are just that, figures, and will not corrupt anyone that is mentally stable to any degree. They will not cause someone to start worshipping the devil, practice evil, or any standard silliness.
I agree. Playing HS or any other game does not "allow the devil in". You can still be a good christian, or what have you, and play HS.

HS does not stop me from attending church on sunday, nor has it given me any reason to reject the bible or the teachings of God.
HS is a game, its not a way of life.

Where's Rev?

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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:40 PM
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Re: Religious Debate for or against HS

Quote:
Originally Posted by clancampbell View Post

Where's Rev?
I'm here. My position has been stated before and hasn't changed.

I do like Aldin's reminder that in some sense all the world is fallen, and it is our relationship to "things" that is at issue and not the things themselves. We live in the tension between a divinely created world of great beauty and power and a fallen world of moral danger; but the tension lies not in the world itself, but within ourselves.

I Timothy 4:4 sums up my attitude toward HeroScape (although God did not directly create HeroScape, God did create the people who did make the game).
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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:40 PM
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Re: Religious Debate for or against HS

I had to check to make sure it wasn't April 1st.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:40 PM
jaamartin jaamartin is offline
 
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Re: Religious Debate for or against HS

I agree, I think that I have turned out to be a strong Christian even though I play these games.

The arguement I posted above is one that I have difficulty answering/debating well.

Any advice on the best way to discuss it is greatly welcomed!
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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:57 PM
jaamartin jaamartin is offline
 
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Re: Religious Debate for or against HS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin
That way lies madness.
That is what I think!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revdyer View Post
I'm here. My position has been stated before and hasn't changed.

I do like Aldin's reminder that in some sense all the world is fallen, and it is our relationship to "things" that is at issue and not the things themselves. We live in the tension between a divinely created world of great beauty and power and a fallen world of moral danger; but the tension lies not in the world itself, but within ourselves.

I Timothy 4:4 sums up my attitude toward HeroScape (although God did not directly create HeroScape, God did create the people who did make the game).
Thanks everyone!

Rev, I will research more from 1 Timothy 4:4, and supporting verses to gather a lot of "fuel" for the ensuing debate that I know will occur. I doubt that my family will be receptive of it spouting that I have already become corrupt at the great deceiver's lies, and that I will not have the ability to see through those lies since I have brought them into my life voluntarily.

Jason
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Old May 26th, 2009, 06:10 PM
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Re: Religious Debate for or against HS

I don't see anything wrong with it. my brother and I have both pkayed with units like the vampires, orcs, and marro, and it hasn't corrupted us in any way.(Besides making an excessive vampire freak.) My family and I are church going christians, and don't believe that this corrupts in any way.
Look at it this way: J.R.R. Tolkien who wrote Lord of the Rings, and C.S. Lewis who wrote the Chronicles of Narnia, have both been said to have put elements of their faith into their stories, both of them being christian. Witches and evil mytholigical monsters are a reccuring theme in Lewis' writings, and Tolkiens villains are even more mature, including sorcerers and demonic entities. Does this make them agents of evil forces? Don't know about you, but I don't think so.
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