Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Official Units
Official Units Discussion of official HeroScape units


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 28th, 2008, 07:37 AM
rdhight's Avatar
rdhight rdhight is offline
Embraces the Suck
 
Join Date: June 1, 2007
Location: crawling through holes.
Posts: 2,678
Images: 7
Blog Entries: 4
rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Templars, Grok Riders, or EI?

If you want to write something that closely follows the format of this post... knock yourself out.

After seeing the Grok Riders' card, one of my first thoughts was that the Einar Imperium really belong in a class with the Templar Cavalry and the Riders, not with the Sentinels and Minions. They're the most expensive commons; they're all melee; and they're all three-man squads with 3 base attack and defense. So which is better?

LEFT BOX: The Templars are Valiant Knights, and the EI are Disciplined Soldiers, all four valuable qualities. The Grok Riders are common Marro, which would normally give them access to Rebirth and Hive Supremacy, but since they do not use the d20 and are burdened with Grok Training, their left-box items are currently worth nothing. Advantage: Templars/EI.

MOBILITY: All three squads score very high in this area. The Templars have a move of 8 and a height of 6, and they can use Jandar's Dispatch to move even farther. Groks are apparently less agile than horses, giving a move of 7 and a height of 5, but the Riders can compensate well by using the power of bonding to move a fourth figure. With such speed, their two-hex bases are less of a hindrance compared to slow walkers like Krug and Major Q9. However, as expensive 1-life figures with no disengagement, both are very vulnerable to swipes. The kyrie have a base move of 5, boostable to 6 by Marcus, and they boast the extremely useful Stealth Flying power, allowing them to ignore any blockers not equipped with a Cyberclaw. Using such expensive, fragile melee figures to attack rats or Warriors of Ashra is usually a poor move, so their ability to choose their targets, combined with their single-hex footprint, gives them the edge. Advantage: EI.

ATTACK: Each squad contains three figures with a base attack of three, but all have dangerous attack enhancements. The Templars are the most focused on quality over quantity; they never make more than three attacks per marker, but boost their own attack from 3 to 5 without help by charging the enemy. Righteous Smite gives them a stackable extra die against Utgar figures. Since he has the most units of any general, including a good share of dangerous and high-defense ones, this is an excellent specialization to have. The Templars also increase the attack of Sir Dupuis and get an attack bonus from Concan. However, such power comes at a price. Because of the exceptions to Galloping Charge, it is considerably worse than the Kozuke Samurai's three attacks of 5. No knight can get the bonus without approaching from the proper distance, and once he does, he will probably not get his extra dice against the same target a second time.

Alone, the marro cavalry would quickly die at the hands of either competitor, but the addition of Warlords puts them on an even footing. Ne-Gok-Sa and Me-Burq-Sa offer a fourth attack of 3, with either a mindshackle attempt or range/Paralyzing Stare as side benefits. A Grok Rider's attack jumps from 3 to 5 when attacking a figure adjacent to his Warlord. Compared to the charge, this is an easier condition to meet when battering at the defenses of a powerful hero. The Templar's attack will go to 5 on his first turn and then drop back to 3, but the Grok Rider's attack will jump to 5 and stay there as long as his Warlord continues to mark his target. The Templars may deal out a mighty 6-5-6 or the like when three of them charge, but Grok Riders in good formation can get on the order of 3-5-5-3 and a mindshackle roll even while standing still.

Rather than gathering extra dice, the EI use their double attack to strike six blows per marker. Not only are they excellent against swarms to begin with, but they profit the most from height advantage or any other attack enhancement. Even 4th Line and Stingers can be left shell-shocked after suffering six attack rolls of 3 and 4 in a single turn. The Einar Imperium also offer the most simplicity of the three, with no need to meet special conditions. Many Templars fall without ever getting the charge bonus. Those who get it once often don't survive to get it a second time. The Riders will be able to start their turn adjacent and still get that attack of 5... as long as a Warlord is helping. The Imperium are swinging at full strength all the time. There are situations when the Templars will hit harder and situations when the Riders can hit harder, but I value reliability over conditional, temporary boosts. Advantage: EI.

DEFENSE: Here's where the real problems start to appear. Investing so many points in so few 3-defense figures is a problem. With no rebirth or defense enhancements coming their way, the Riders depend primarily on large size to give them an edge. As a consolation prize, Ne-Gok-Sa is a rock wall who can add some damage-soaking capability to their armies. The medium-sized EI look to defense dice instead, thanks to Kiova. She is quite the bargain when played with two or more squads of them. Her defense enhancement is about as good as Raelin's to begin with (but with a better radius), then synergizes well with any extra dice from other sources. Kiova herself has stealth flying, and a 5-life, 4-defense hero can stick around long enough to matter. Imperium soldiers are also better at hiding, thanks to their smaller size and non-hitzone wings and swords.

Still, the Templars come out looking the strongest on defense. They combine the large size of the Grok Riders with the extra shields of the Imperium-- only instead of getting help from a 90-point, non-bonding support hero, they help themselves instead. Just as 3 base attack dice and Galloping Charge is strictly worse than 5 base attack, Dismiss the Rabble is strictly worse than 4 base defense. On the other hand, protection from squads is never bad, and going from three to four defense is an important milestone. In addition, the Templars help the defense of the powerful, ranged 4th Line, while EI can only help the mediocre, melee Greeks. Concan can help the knights out here, too. Advantage: Templars.

COST: Templar Cavalry is 120. Grok Riders are 130. Einar Imperium are 140. Putting this in more practical terms, Templars x2 are 240; EI x2 are 280; a bonding group based on marro cavalry x2 will run you 310, 350, or 400 depending on Warlord selection. Advantage: Templars.

I enjoy fielding the Marro Warlords, but not the Romans, so I'm going to buy and play the Grok Riders. But just to look at them, I can't find any reason why they should perform any better than Templars and EI, which we all know are not exactly tournament staples. I think all three are very similar in power level, but lend themselves to different builds. The Templars play nicely with range because of their lower cost, Valiant status, and more self-sufficient powers. The EI like rats and drink up benefits from support figures like Captain America, Kiova, Marcus, Nakitas, even Taelord in a big army. And the Riders need their Warlords far more than EI need Kiova or Cyprien needs Sonya.

Last edited by rdhight; May 28th, 2008 at 08:12 AM. Reason: fixed font, bolding
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old May 28th, 2008, 08:01 AM
Revdyer's Avatar
Revdyer Revdyer is offline
Our Invaluable & Highly Esteemed Resident Chaplain
 
Join Date: May 9, 2006
Location: AR - Little Rock
Posts: 13,323
Images: 11
Blog Entries: 18
Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth Revdyer is a man of the cloth
Re: Templars, Grok Riders, or EI?

This is an interesting analysis, rdhight; thanks for posting it.

Revrepped you another greenie. <grin>
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old May 28th, 2008, 08:04 AM
its me lol's Avatar
its me lol its me lol is offline
 
Join Date: May 14, 2008
Location: USA - OH - Youngstown (Boardman)
Posts: 258
its me lol is surprisingly tart
Re: Templars, Grok Riders, or EI?

Very well thought out thank you.

'Cause nothin' lasts forever
And we both know hearts can change
And it's hard to hold a candle
In the cold November rain
-Axl Rose
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old May 28th, 2008, 08:09 AM
Fourshadow Fourshadow is offline
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: OK - Tulsa
Posts: 633
Fourshadow knows what's in an order marker Fourshadow knows what's in an order marker
Re: Templars, Grok Riders, or EI?

Just an addendum, both the Templars and Groks, as you pointed out, are large and that is a benefit. Not only does that help against the obvious Braxas, but also the much lower cost yet longer range Dead-Eye Dan. He cannot realistically hurt either cavalry squad unless he gets really lucky or is on extreme height.

"There's right and there's wrong: you do one and you're living. You do the other and you may be walking around, but you're as dead as a beaver hat." John Wayne in The Alamo
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old May 28th, 2008, 08:37 AM
King's Knight's Avatar
King's Knight King's Knight is offline
 
Join Date: December 5, 2006
Location: VA - Alton
Posts: 982
King's Knight knows what's in an order marker King's Knight knows what's in an order marker
Re: Templars, Grok Riders, or EI?

At first glance I was slightly disappointed mainly because of their high cost and the lack of the hive rebirth, also because I initially glanced over mark of the warlord. But since the riders do not need to disengage to keep their enhanced attack if they didn't kill their target initially makes helps alot. Also, I can't remember, is Wu-Sa-Ga (or whatever it's name is) a warlord or hivelord?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old May 28th, 2008, 08:59 AM
rdhight's Avatar
rdhight rdhight is offline
Embraces the Suck
 
Join Date: June 1, 2007
Location: crawling through holes.
Posts: 2,678
Images: 7
Blog Entries: 4
rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness rdhight wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: Templars, Grok Riders, or EI?

Quote:
Originally Posted by King's Knight View Post
Also, I can't remember, is Wu-Sa-Ga (or whatever it's name is) a warlord or hivelord?
We haven't seen his card. According to a blurry picture of the back of his box, he's a Hivelord.

EDIT: It's a girl! And a Hivelord! And a marro! Aren't you a cute little AAAAAAGK it hurts I can't breathe

Last edited by rdhight; June 6th, 2008 at 06:26 AM. Reason: WSG revealed
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old May 28th, 2008, 10:00 AM
Finrod's Avatar
Finrod Finrod is offline
 
Join Date: May 9, 2006
Location: TX - Houston (League City)
Posts: 2,028
Images: 3
Blog Entries: 3
Finrod rolls all skulls baby! Finrod rolls all skulls baby! Finrod rolls all skulls baby! Finrod rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Templars, Grok Riders, or EI?

Great analysis. I'll send you some Finrep. (Not as potent as Revrep, but nothing to sneeze at, either.)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old May 28th, 2008, 10:58 AM
eric.dunfee's Avatar
eric.dunfee eric.dunfee is offline
 
Join Date: August 2, 2007
Location: WA - Kennewick
Posts: 324
eric.dunfee Woo who?
Re: Templars, Grok Riders, or EI?

+rep! Very nice, and very helpful write up!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old May 28th, 2008, 11:48 AM
NecroBlade's Avatar
NecroBlade NecroBlade is online now
"our design team knows what it's doing"
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Location: KY - Shepherdsville
Posts: 21,046
Images: 155
Blog Entries: 21
NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth
Re: Templars, Grok Riders, or EI?

I always enjoy a good analysis. Thanks for doing this.


Arena of the Valkyire - Help create Heroscape's next Master Set!
317-149
C3V Brainstorm
Pepperony - 14/09/13
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old May 28th, 2008, 12:06 PM
markwars's Avatar
markwars markwars is offline
Mintiest of the Minty
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: TX - Dallas (Denton)
Posts: 8,925
Images: 9
Blog Entries: 14
markwars wears ripped pants of awesomeness markwars wears ripped pants of awesomeness markwars wears ripped pants of awesomeness markwars wears ripped pants of awesomeness markwars wears ripped pants of awesomeness markwars wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: Templars, Grok Riders, or EI?

Nice thread. Now explain why my EI die way too damn fast for me to want to draft them? [jk]

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old May 28th, 2008, 12:11 PM
Jexik's Avatar
Jexik Jexik is offline
Et tu, Jaxet?
 
Join Date: July 4, 2007
Location: IL - Elgin
Posts: 7,042
Images: 3
Blog Entries: 30
Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death! Jexik is hot lava death!
Re: Templars, Grok Riders, or EI?

I think one thing that all three of these squads have in common is how potent they are as Hero killers. When you ask, "What are these guys going to do against the 4th Mass?" the outlook is bleak. But if you're taking down Grimnak and some Heavy Gruts the Templar and Grok Riders look pretty dang good.

Also in Wave 8/8.5 we're getting the Spiders, Wolves of Badru, and even Arkmer who will have anti- small/medium abilities, which will make those two squads even better in the right situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old May 28th, 2008, 02:14 PM
yagyuninja's Avatar
yagyuninja yagyuninja is offline
 
Join Date: May 9, 2006
Location: OR - Eugene
Posts: 2,577
Images: 5
yagyuninja rolls all skulls baby! yagyuninja rolls all skulls baby! yagyuninja rolls all skulls baby! yagyuninja rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Templars, Grok Riders, or EI?

Nice analysis. Building on what Jexik said, the Groks and Templar sure make Braxas look pretty sad.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Official Units
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Heavy Spikes obstacle. Proposed stats in first post. Hahma Custom Terrain & Obstacles 27 July 19th, 2009 03:28 PM
Grok riders MechaBeast Official Units 218 June 1st, 2009 08:25 AM
Grok Armies nyys Competitive Armies Discussion 35 June 20th, 2008 01:09 PM
Riders of Valhalla Tai-Pan HeroScape General Discussion 13 July 30th, 2007 01:17 AM
The Glorious Cause. Fallen Templars attempt at fan fiction Fallen Templar Fan Art & Fiction 7 August 25th, 2006 02:26 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:49 PM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.