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Old March 17th, 2008, 05:35 PM
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What Should You Get? The Waves Ranked

This hopefully will help newcomers (well, any Heroscaper), in their quest to figure out what packs to buy.

Using Spider_Poison's Heroscape Power Rankings Thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ead.php?t=6171) based on opinions of how all the heroscape figures rank up, I have arranged them so that we can compare the various waves and booster packs based on our own opinions of how they fare in a competitive setting.

Giving a rank of "F" 0 points, and an "A+" 12 points, while taking into consideration how many figures encompase that unit, I have made an interesting list that showcases Heroscape.

I know Spider_Poison is planning on redoing/updating his list, which means that I'll have to do this list all over again, but that's ok. perhaps this will give insight and help him out while he's trying to decide what to change and by how much.

So here we go and enjoy! Let me know what you think, or anything that can make this better.

F=0, D-=1, D=2, D+=3, C-=4, C=5, C+=6, B-=7, B=8, B+=9, A-=10, A=11, A+=12

Wave 1

Heroes of Bleakwood - Taelord (C), Kelda (C), Tornak (C+), Marcus Gallus (A-), Venoc Warlord (B) - 8.5

Snipers and Vipers - Omnicron Snipers [3] (B+), Venoc Vipers [3] (B) - 8.5

Romans - Roman Legionnaires [4] (A), Roman Archers [3] (C) - 8.43

Grut Orcs - Blade Gruts [4] (B+), Arrow Gruts [3] (A) - 9.86

Wave 2 Utgar's Rage

Heroes of Barrenspur - Krug (A), Me-Burq-Sa (A), Khosumet (F), Sir Denrick (B-) - 7.25

Knights and Swog Rider - Knights of Weston [4] (A), Swog Rider (A) - 11

Minutemen and Wolves - 4th Massachussett's Line [4] (A+), Anubian Wolves [3] (B-) - 9.86

Minions and Drones - Minions of Utgar [3] (A-), Marro Drones [3] (B+) - 9.5

Wave 3 Jandar's Oath

Heroes of Nostralund - Saylind (C+), Alastair MacDirk (A-), Concan (B), Deathwalker 7000 (F), Johnny Shotgun (C+) - 6

Gorillas and Hounds - Gorrillinators [3] (B-), Marrden Hounds [3] (B) - 7.5

Kilts and Commandoes - MacDirk Warriors [4] (B-), Microcorp Agents [3] (B-) - 7

Monks and Guards - Shaolin Monks [3] (B-), Sentinels [3] (B+) - 8

Wave 4 Zanafor's Discovery

Heroes of Trollsford - Valguard (C+), Sudema (D+), Parmenio (C-), Morsbane (D+), Major X17 (C) - 4.2

Lawmen and Samurai - Deadeye Dan (C+), James Murphy (B), Guilty McCreech (B), Tagawa Samurai [3] (B) - 7.67

Greeks and Vipers - Sacred Band [4] (B), Armoc Vipers [3] (B) - 8

Soulborgs and Elves - Gladiatrons [4] (A), Aubrien Archers [3] (A-) - 10.57

Wave 5 Thora's Vengeance

Gladiator's and Agents - Spartacus (D), Crixus (B), Retiarius (C), Nakita Agents [3] (B+) - 7

Ninjas and Samurai - Ninjas of the Northern Wind [3] (B), Kozuke Samurai [3] (B) - 8

Warriors and Soulborgs - Warriors of Ashra [3] (B), Deathreavers [4] (A+) - 10.29

Soulborgs and Deathstalkers - Blastatrons [4] (A), Deathstalkers [3] (C+) - 8.86

Wave 6 Dawn of Darkness

Heroes of Durgoth – Kaemon Awa (A), Empress Kiova (C+), Runa (C-), Kee-Mo-Shi (B-), Eldgrim (A-) – 7.6

Shades and Orcs – Shades of Bleakewood [3] (C), Heavy Gruts [4] (B+) – 7.29

Archers and Kyrie – Tagawa Archers [3] (B-), Einar Imperium [3] (C) – 6

Zombies – Zombies of Morindan [6] (B) – 8

Wave 7 Fields of Valor

Heroes of Elswin – Cyprien Esenwein (A), Sonya Esenwein (A-), Isamu (A), Warden 816 (B-), Kyntela Gwyn (C-) – 8.6

Fiends and Vampires – Iskra Esenwein (B-), Marcu Esenwein (A), Rechets of Bogdan [3] (C+) – 7.2

Knights – Knights Templar [3] (C+) – 6

Spearmen and Riflemen – Ashigaru Yari [4] (C+), Ashigaru Harquebus [4] (B-) – 6.5

Large Sets

Orm’s Return – Charos (B), Deathwalker 800 (C+), Brunak (B-), Dund (D-), Su-Bak-Na (B-) – 5.8

Raknar’s Vision – Jotun (B-), Braxas (A-), Nilfheim (A), Theracus (B+), Major Q9 (A+) – 9.8

Master Sets

Rise of the Valkyrie – Mimring (B-), Finn (B), Thorgrim (C+), Tarn Vikings (B), Agent Carr (B-), Krav Maga Agents [3] (A), Ne-Gok-Sa (B), Marro Warriors [4] (A), Sylvarris (B), Deathwalker 9000 (C+), Zettian Guards [2] (C), Raelin (A+), Izumi Samurai [3] (B), Sergeant Drake (B-), Airborne Elite [4] (A-), Grimnak (B) – 8.67

RotV with Elite Onyx Vipers (C) – 8.33

Swarm of the Marro – Tor-Kul-Na (B), Sergeant Drake (B+), Raelin (B), Shiori (C+), Major Q10 (A-), Sonlen (B), Marro Hive (B), Marro Stingers [6] (A), Marro Drudges [6] (C), Marrden Nagrubs [6] (B) – 8.04

Crest of the Valkyrie (Flag Bearers)
Gilbert (A), Acolarh (C-), Ornak (B), Laglor (A), Hatamoto Taro (C-) – 7.6

List of Heroscape Sets from Highest Ranked to Lowest

A, A+
*Knights and Swog Rider - 11

A-, A
*Soulborgs and Elves – 10.57
*Warriors and Soulborgs – 10.29

B+, A-
*Minutemen and Wolves – 9.86
*Grut Orcs – 9.86
Raknar’s Vision – 9.8
Heroes of Bleakwood - 9.67
Heroes of Elswin - 9.5
*Minions and Drones – 9.5
Heroes of Barrenspur - 9

B, B+
Rise of the Valkyrie Master Set – 8.67
Heroes of Elswin – 8.6
Heroes of Durgoth - 8.5
Heroes of Bleakwood – 8.5
*Snipers and Vipers – 8.5
*Romans – 8.43
RotV Master Set with EOV – 8.33
**Swarm of the Marro Master Set – 8.04
Gladiators and Agents - 8
*Zombies - 8
*Monks and Guards - 8
Ninjas and Samurai - 8
*Greeks and Vipers - 8

B-, B
Lawmen and Samurai – 7.67
Crest of the Valkyrie – 7.6
Heroes of Durgoth – 7.6
Heroes of Nostralund - 7.5
*Gorillas and Hounds – 7.5
Heroes of Barrenspur – 7.25
*Shades and Orcs – 7.29
Fiends and Vampires – 7.2
Gladiators and Agents - 7
*Kilts and Commandoes - 7

C+, B-
*Spearman and Riflemen – 6.5
Heroes of Nostralund – 6
*Archers and Kyrie - 6
*Knights - 6

C, C+
Orm’s Return – 5.8

C-, C
Heroes of Trollsford - 4.5
Heroes of Trollsford – 4.2

* This set is common and may be taken in multiples
** This set has both commons and multiples in it
Color Green indicates that this pack was given the benefit of the "cheap grading curve" in that the lowest rank was dropped in favor of stopping really low-ranked characters like Khosumet from ruining the wave.

List of Waves in Order from Highest Ranked to Lowest

Wave 2 Utgar’s Rage – 9.4
Wave 1 Mallidon’s prophecy – 8.82
Wave 5 Thora’s Vengeance – 8.54
Wave 4 Zanafor’s Discovery – 7.61
Wave 6 Dawn of Darkness – 7.22
Wave 3 Jandar’s Oath – 7.13
Wave 7 Fields of Valor – 7.08


What I find most interesting about these lists are how close all of the sets/waves/units are. It's pretty impressive that they are all so close together with only a few exceptions. Most of the sets are good buys, the difference in many cases in preference. This is probably the main reason why it is so hard to help someone choose what sets to buy first (they are all good!)

There is apparently a thread that attempted something like this before and here it is (I would have never found this if it wasn't for the help from a fellow Heroscaper): http://www.heroscapers.com/community...asc&highlight=

Sets that should be bought in groups:

Viper Army
Heroes of Bleakwood (Venoc Warlord)
Snipers and Vipers
Greeks and Vipers

Orc Army (melee)
Grut Orcs
Heroes of Bleakwood (Tornak)
RotV Master Set (Grimnak)
Shades and Orcs
Ornak

Orc Army (ranged and beast bonding)
Grut Orcs
Heroes of Barrenspur (Krug)
Knights and Swog Rider
RotV Master Set (Mimring)
Ornak


Marro Army
SotM Master Set (Tor-Kul-Na, Stingers, Drudge, Nagrubs, Hive)
RotV Master Set (Warriors, Ne-Gok-Sa)
Orm's Return (Su-Bak-Na)
Minions and Drones
Gorillas and Hounds
Heroes of Durgoth (Kee-Mo-Shi)
Heroes of Barrenspur (Me-Burq-Sa)


Knight Army
Knights and Swog Rider
Heroes of Barrenspur (Denrick)
Heroes of Nostralund (Alastair MacDirk, Concan)
Heroes of Durgoth (Eldgrim)
RotV Master Set (Finn, Thorgrim)
Sir Gilbert


Roman Army
Heroes of Bleakwood (Marcus, Venoc Warlord)
Romans
Heroes of Barrenspur (Me-Burq-Sa)
Heroes of Trollsford (Valguard, Parmenio)
RotV Master Set (Ne-Gok-Sa)


Elf Army
Heroes of Bleakwood (Venoc Warlord)
RotV Master Set (Sylvarris)
Soulborgs and Elves
Warriors and Soulborgs
Acolarh


Blast/Glad Army
Soulborgs and Elves
Soulborgs and Deathstalkers
Laglor


Vydar Ranged Army
RotV Master Set (Krav Maga Agents)
Kilts and Commandoes
Raknar's Vision (Major Q9)
SotM Master Set (Major Q10)
Gladiator's and Agents
Laglor


Samurai Army
RotV Master Set (Izumi Samurai)
Lawmen and Samurai
Ninjas and Samurai
Archers and Kyrie
Spearman and Riflemen
Hatamoto Taro

A+ Ranked Sets and Sets everyone should own

RotV Master Set - This one goes almost without saying. For one it includes the stuff you need to play a game, so it should be the first thing you buy anyway. It is also a great place to start if you're not quite sure what kind of army you want as it has so many figures that help other armies. Heck, having Raelin in there alone is a unit worth having in almost every army. I didn't put Raelin up whenever I listed the RotV set because she can go in any army. Other units like the Airborne Elite and Krav Maga Agents also are great units to go into an army. The SotM Master Set is also a good buy, but if you're not into making a Marro Army you should probably skip this set as it doesn't have the versatility of the first Master Set in many areas.

Raknar's Vision - This Large Set gives the player some huge firepower. Although not an army by itself, it's characters can form the backbone of some strong armies. Major Q9 comes to mind, but Nilfheim and even Braxas have been known to be in some great armies.

Heroes of Elswin - Although this Wave does not rank high on the list, it has one character that almost every army can include: Isamu. In so many armies you will have at least 10 points to spare that would otherwise go unused. Isamu fills that niche. The set also gives you the really fun characters of Cyprien and Sonya

Fiends and Vampires - Along with the above set this one gives you another great filler named Marcu. This guy is only 20 pts but can make sure your points don't go down the drain when you're picking an army. This set also has the "fun" Iskra and Rechets.

Minutemen and Wolves - I'm putting this here instead of above because with this pack you can almost get an army by itself. A couple of these will ensure that you have a competitive army using the 4th Mass. Of course you can help them out with Charos (Orm's Return), Heroes of Bleakwood (Marcus), Sir Gilbert, or any number of other helpers or valiant characters, but the 4th Mass are fine on their own and the number of championships won with armies using 4th Mass is a testament to their greatness.

Warriors and Soulborgs - This set includes the Deathreavers, a very highly ranked unit in Heroscape. These little guys can fit in almost any army and fill in a couple of the roles needed for a competitive army such as a meat shield and glyph-grabbers. 1-2 sets of these is compulsory for any budding army maker.

Favorite Sets/Packs

Alright was done to try and get the opinion of all Heroscapers about what heir favorite packs are and why. This includes the entire range/collection of Heroscape. After searching through a variety of threads I have come up with this ranking system. The Grade each set receives is based on "fun" value, usefulness, and unit ranking. This is the 1st draft of the list and will change depending on you. So let me know what you think and what stuff you think should be changed!

A+
RotV Master Set
Heroes of Barrenspur
Raknar's Vision
Road to the Forgotten Forest

A
Grut Orcs
Heroes of Elswin
Sir Gilbert
Knights and Swog Rider

A-
Heroes of Bleakwood
Laglor
Zombies
Minutemen and Wolves

B+
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider
Romans
Warriors and Soulborgs
Master Win Chiu Woo

B
Soulborgs and Elves
Orm's Return
Lawmen and Samurai
Swarm of the Marro Master Set

B-
Fortress of the Archkyrie
Heroes of Durgoth
Soulborgs and Deathstalkers
Sir Hawthorne
Ninjas and Samurai

C+
Shades and Orcs
Fiends and Vampires
Kilt's and Commandoes

C
Monks and Guards
Snipers and Vipers
Minions and Drones

C-
Elite Onyx Vipers
Ornak
Acolarh
Hatamoto Taro

D+
Thaelenk Tundra
Gladiators and Agents
Heroes of Nostralund

D
Volcarran Wasteland
Archers and Kyrie
Gorillas and Hounds

D-
Spearman and Riflemen
Knights

F
Heroes of Trollsford
Greeks and Vipers

Acolarh – Although his flag looks cool, Acolarh’s cost in real money and lack of playability leaves him in the dust. C-.
Archers and Kyrie – The Kyrie are a paper unit and the archers just aren’t that good. D.
Elite Onyx Vipers – An exclusive to the new RotV master set, they are a fun black version of the Venoc Vipers. C-.
Fiends and Vampires – The Fiends are a fun shock troop and Iskra chews on people, but the main good thing about this set is Marcu C+
Fortress of the Archkyrie – We all waited in anticipation upon seeing the first pics of this set. Map builders and showcasers rejoice. B-.
Gladiators and Agents – Although they look cool, the Gladiators are just horrible. The Nakitas are nice when used with the right units. D+.
Gorillas and Hounds – The Gorilla’s automatic shield is great but that’s about it. The hounds are entertaining but like all Marro, unpredictable. D.
Greeks and Vipers – If we didn’t have Romans and Venocs, this would be a great pack. F.
Grut Orcs – The hardest pack to find in bulk, this remains a top favorite of Heroscapers A.
Hatamoto Taro – The all-melee army just doesn’t get too much from him. His real world cost also hurts. C-.
Heroes of Barrenspur – Krug, Me-burq-Sa, need we say more? A+
Heroes of Bleakwood – This hero pack offers a variety of heroes that can benefit a variety of armies. A-.
Heroes of Durgoth – Kaemon Awa and Eldgrim make this set. Everyone else (cough Runa) depresses all but killercactus. B-.
Heroes of Elswin – Besides having one of the coolest characters in Heroscape (Cyprien), the pack offers something everyone can use: Isamu. A.
Heroes of Nostralund – Alastair is good, Johnny Shotgun is a weaker version of Murphy. Not the best hero pack. D+.
Heroes of Trollsford – Wow, there is nothing in this pack that can’t be replaced by something much better. F.
Kilts and Commandoes – The re-emerging Kilts are starting to rise again while the Commandos continue to spark debate about which is better: Themselves or the Krav. C+.
Knights – Cool concept but just don’t do well in the game right now. Also only 3 figures and no terrain in the pack. D-.
Knights and Swog Rider – A must-have pack for arrow grut-lovers. The knights are still a solid force to be reckoned with. A.
Laglor – A flag bearer that helps out some of the best units in the game, while being able to hold his own on offense. Also a very cool sculpt. A-.
Lawmen and Samurai – Very fun set, who doesn’t enjoy Cowboys and Samurai? Both enjoyable to play with as well. B.
Master Win Chiu Woo – This guy is still fetching a high price on ebay. The first of Aquilla’s clan, this repaint is a powerhouse of cool. B+.
Minions and Drones – An unfortunate mix of high cost and low cost common units. We all have too many minions and not enough drones. C.
Minutemen and Wolves – An army in a pack. Another example of a pack that gives us a ton of what we want, and a ton of stuff we can’t use. A-.
Monks and Guards – Iconic, but the Monks just don’t fit in Ullar, nor are they very good, while the Guards rely too much on defense to be effective. This group gets looked over frequently and is very sought after at the moment even though people don’t play them competitively. C.
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider – The first exclusive. Lucky buyers got to Toys R Us and got a couple of copies, a fun addition to any orc army. B+.
Ninjas and Samurai – Ninjas and Samurai have some of the best looking sculpts of Heroscape, and they are a hoot to play. B-.
Orm’s Return – The first large hero set we got, instantly becoming a favorite of many. It’s popularity has dwindled in recent expansions. B.
Ornak – An alright addition to orc armies, Ornak’s main ability is to help heroes. An expensive figure to get makes him feel unwanted. C-.
Raknar’s Vision – Contains some of the most powerful and popular figures to date, Designers are still trying to find figures that can cope with this set. It also has beautiful sculpts and paint jobs. A+.
Rise of the Valkyrie Master Set – A must-have for anyone who plays heroscape. A great beginning guide to the game, as well as the best jumping point for army starters. A+.
Road to the Forgotten Forest – The only place to get the coveted trees and road for the longest time. The common Dumutef Guard was the best filler-unit for a long time as well. A+.
Romans – A dominant army in the olden days, the romans have dwindled a bit but still remain a fun army to play and a sought after pack to find. B+.
Shades and Orcs – One of the coolest looking packs in the new expanions, the shades and orcs tend to disappoint players more than please them. C+.
Sir Gilbert – Arguably the best flag bearer we have. His ability to move the stubborn Jandar units have made him a popular choice. He also looks awesome. A.
Sir Hawthorne – This backstabbing hooligan is another exclusive to Gencon. Threads upon threads are made to show how to replicate him. If he backstabs your army, you’re in deep trouble. B-.
Snipers and Vipers – The first pack to give too much of one thing, and not enough of the other, both units are now a part of fun, but not competitive, armies. C.
Soulborgs and Elves – When this pack first came out, it was all about the elves. Funny how things turn out. With the release of the blastatrons this pack has become half of a very competitive army. B.
Spearman and Riflemen – Hopefully the release of Kato Katsura makes these guys better, because until then, these guys just aren’t that good. D-.
Swarm of the Marro Master Set – A great supplier of swamp terrain and Marro, but this master set just doesn’t live up to the original. B.
Thaelenk Tundra – Although the terrain is cool, the Dzu-Teh just don’t work anywhere else. D+.
Volcarran Wasteland – Fun and dangerous terrain, but the obsidian guards that come with it just don’t make the cut. Also a toys R us exclusive at the moment which makes it hard to come by. D.
Warriors and Soulborgs – The deathreavers alone can sell this pack. A must-have for any army-builder. The elves make for a great all-melee army as well. B+.
Zombies – Excitement abounded when we heard of the release of these brain-eaters. Nothing quite makes you feel as good as eating an opponent’s figure and placing on of your dead ones back on the table. A-.
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Old March 17th, 2008, 05:57 PM
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I like this idea, but the only issue I have with it is perhaps the scoring should be weighted differently. Instead of just 1-12 maybe higher grades could get a better score perhaps 20 for A and 25 for A+. The reason why I say this is potentially very high scoring packs like the heroes of barranspur are really affected by one bad character (khosumet in this instance) and you don't really get the true value of a pack. Don't know if that's what your looking for, but it's just my
Thanks for doing this though, I do really like the idea.

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Old March 17th, 2008, 06:00 PM
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Could you do a ranking for each overall set?, that would be sweet. Good job, very useful!
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Old March 17th, 2008, 06:03 PM
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Interesting though I wouldn't rank things the same way for sure. Not sure hot Knights and Swog Rider got top ranking at all. I would think Raknar's Vision would be much higher. I guess I don't get how this ranking comes about.

R~

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Old March 17th, 2008, 06:10 PM
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Looks like Waves 1,2, and 5 are the best.

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Old March 17th, 2008, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Unit94
Looks like Waves 1,2, and 5 are the best.
Explains why Wave 5 is so easy to find. Or it could be that spider_poison doesn't know what he is talking about despite his title which means squat.

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Old March 17th, 2008, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbdaman
Interesting though I wouldn't rank things the same way for sure. Not sure hot Knights and Swog Rider got top ranking at all. I would think Raknar's Vision would be much higher. I guess I don't get how this ranking comes about.

R~
Yea I found that odd as well. I am just inputtign the numbers and they are the same for everyone, and the knights happened to come out on top. They are a very good set. As I said these are based on the rankings of Spider_Poison. I had hoped that they may also help him in reevaluating the power rankings thread after seeing how each set ranks up and such. Not sure if it will but I can dream.

And spidysox, I understand what you mean. It is one of those unfortunate thigns that happen with lists such as these. Perhaps if I dropped the top rank and the lowest ran of each wave it would be a more accurate depiction of the waves. I know they do that in tests and stuff in school, and especially in statistics.
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Old March 17th, 2008, 06:26 PM
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Re: What Should You Get? The Waves Ranked

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamjuven
Ok I'm sure this has been shown somewhere before but I can't, for the life of me, find where it was. It's probably in the second page of another section of the website. But at least it's probably not been updated in a while.
Could this be it! http://www.heroscapers.com/community...asc&highlight=
I didn't work out that well so good luck to you on it!

One problem! The Soulborg pack is high because of Blastatrons but they need Gladiatrons to be good so you may want to add special features to them ,Arrow gruts, etc!

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  #9  
Old March 17th, 2008, 06:41 PM
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Good idea. Sometimes I forget how many great figures were packaged with so-so figures. Packs that contain some of the best units in the game averaged out to mediocre grades.

One suggestion....folks are usually used to seeing a 4.0 scale when it comes to letter grades. Perhaps your numbers could reflect that instead of a 12 point scale...it would make it more intuitive.
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Old March 17th, 2008, 06:46 PM
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Another issue for me is that some packs just scream to be bought because one hero is so cool. Like Krug and Me-Burq-Sa, or Kaemon Awa and Eldgrim. They're both packaged with some stinkers, but those would still be on my must-buy list. Most unique packs are really, even the wave 4 ones, or gasp... the Gladiators and Agents.

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Old March 17th, 2008, 07:03 PM
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Alright I added some stuff to try and control for things like khosumet ruining wave 2 heroes and stuff like that. I also split one of the lists so that you can see the letter grade as well since it's easier to read than a number and it corresponds perfectly to Spider_Poison's thread.

I think I shall make a poll about what everyone's favorite Hero pack is. Or perhaps what everyone's favorite wave is. I shall put them in the 1st post. So let me know
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Old March 17th, 2008, 07:15 PM
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I think the idea of "versatility" is somewhat lost in the ranking, although I do think you've got a great idea with what you've put together here.

I instantly think of the Grut Orcs, when it comes to a logical first purchase. Their versatility alone, makes them a real good first step in planning basic common squad armies. I know they're high on the list, but I think just about anyone would rate them higher than "Knights and Swog Rider".


That's just an example - most of the list I'd probably agree with, but since the goal of the thread was to give an idea of best first purchases, maybe some of the packs might benefit of being weighted differently?

Just my 2c.

I think you've done a great job! I love seeing statistics such as these!

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