Theory of Left Activity

[SpartanNinja]

Hey, I know I'm new and all (not to the game), but I've seen plenty of threads and never seen any cover this subject.

Who to attack? Not as in what figure to attack (which has been covered), but rather what player or opponent (in a none team game with 3 or more players).

The main rule of thumb is always direct yourself to the player to your left especially if you go before them. The reason for this should be obvious, when rolling for initiative the only way the left opponent can precede you is by winning the roll. Which means that you have at least a 66% chance (in a 3 player game, more chance with more players) to go before the left player.

EXAMPLE: P1 is playing a game with P2, P3, and P4. P1 wins the first initiative roll and play proceeds to the left with P2 next followed by P3 who in turn is followed by P4. P1 moves the bulk of his army towards P2, creating a larger expanse between hisself and P4, and damages or destroys figures with order markers on there cards in P2's army. P2 retaliates but was unprepared for P1's full fledged attack. P3 could now either further damage P2, virtually destroying the hopes of P2 winning, or start another seperate battle with P4 which would have a better outcome for him. P4 is left with chasing down P1 or fighting P3 neither truly being to his advantage. Next round, P1 should have no worries (unless of course luck played into P2 hand). Let's say P3 wins initiative and attacks P4, and P4 retaliates. P1 can now again take the advantage of preceding P2 again and removes P2 from the board by targeting the key figures (referred to in the INGP value article), and leaves almost unscathed. P3 has a similar result and now you're left with a 2 player game.

Do you see how with P1 vs P2 the initiative was in P1's favor, because if either P3, P4, or P1 himself won the roll P1 would precede P2 (the player to his left). Of course there is always that chance that the left player's army is stronger in which case you should let him attack his left and you should prepare for the long haul with your right sided opponent (and being prepared does give you a whole lot of a better chance at survival than not doing so).

Just in case you don't believe me. In all cases P2 is to P1's left.

3 player game: 66% chance P1 precedes P2
4 player game: 75% chance P1 precedes P2
5 player game: 80% chance P1 precedes P2
6 player game: 83% chance P1 precedes P2
7 player game: 86% chance P1 precedes P2
8 player game: 88% chance P1 precedes P2

Pretty convincing numbers there, eh.

But now everybody knows this strategy and it will all rely upon whether you won the initiative or not (or if your P1 then P3, P5, or any other odd numbered opponent).And I'm sure somebody out there will eventually figure out a counter strategy (one has to exist somehow, right?).

Disclaimer: If this makes all your games boring and predictable, your the one that chose to use this technique. I only suggest this as a possible strategy and you should be aware that it is only a strategy and certain circumstances may make the left a poor choice to attack (such as huge height advantages, etc.).

I didn't use specific figures in the example for fear of it being to complicated and/or more lengthy.

Give me some feedback.

[Jexik]

And as the number of players in a game approaches infinity, the guy to your left's chance of going before you goes to zero.

I definitely appreciate a bit of mathematical logic. Ceteris paribus, this shows that it makes sense to hit the guy to your left whenever playing in a Free for All game with 3 or more players. Well, I guess it works for two players too, but then you don't really have a choice.

I've been playing a lot more 1v1 games lately, or 2v2, but the next time I play a three player game I'll keep this in mind. On the other hand, I'll also be on the look out for other factors, like who has the lead, whose units match up better against mine, who is the best player, etc... I find that lots of these hard and fast rules need to be amended when you get into the game itself. And what if you win the initiative? Would it then be good to go against this theory and attack the guy to your right, since if he's following this logic he'll want to attack you?

Welcome to the site SpartanNinja. Is the first half of your name referencing the actual Spartans, the graphic novel version, or perhaps the Halo guys with the same name?

[SpartanNinja]

It's more of an opening move anyway. And being prepared for the right sided opponent should be considered, but moving to your left would mean that the right sided opponent would have to cover more ground to attack you (especially if your prepared).

Spartan as in the actual Spartans.

Thanks for the welcome.

[rdhight]

Good topic, SpartanNinja! I would add a couple of cautions, though.

First of all, if I'm going before you, I would consider my 1 marker to be more valuable than yours, but your 3 marker to be more valuable than mine. If you're planning on delivering big blows with your 3, you might not want to go left as much. I usually want to go last in the first round, because having the better 1 marker isn't as good as the possibility of having the better 3 later (when there's a greater chance of being in contact).

Second, every time you approach an army that is currently moving after you, you're exposing yourself to the lucky initiative switch. When you approach an army currently moving before you, you set yourself up to possibly take two turns in a row instead.

Third, I think the most important thing in a free-for-all game is above all not to let someone sit out. Punish the conservatives! If one player comes at me while the other hangs back, #@&% going left, I'm going for the guy who wants to watch the fight and finish off the winner.

Still, excellent post!

[bunjee]

Actually, this is part of the reason that we've shifted to rolled initiative order for turn order. We use playing cards to track who goes 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Clockwise from highest roller just seems to cause that left biased gang up.

[allskulls]

Originally Posted by bunjee

Actually, this is part of the reason that we've shifted to rolled initiative order for turn order. We use playing cards to track who goes 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Clockwise from highest roller just seems to cause that left biased gang up.

Same here. Plus it gives only the holder of the initiative glyph the bonus and not the one sitting "after" him/her a boost for going 2nd. 2 on 2 games should alternate between the teams.

[SpartanNinja]

Good points all.

[quote]bunjee wrote:
Actually, this is part of the reason that we've shifted to rolled initiative order for turn order. We use playing cards to track who goes 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Clockwise from highest roller just seems to cause that left biased gang up.

[quote]allskulls wrote:
Same here. Plus it gives only the holder of the initiative glyph the bonus and not the one sitting "after" him/her a boost for going 2nd. 2 on 2 games should alternate between the teams.

Here's my problem with this though, in the rule book it specifically states that "At the beginning of a round, each player rolls the 20-sided die for initiative. The player with the highest roll will get to take each of his turns first. Play then passes to the left...."

So shifting the rolled initiative like that is actually against the rules. And I'm pretty sure the heroscape designers (great minds that they are) put the teamates together just because of the play passing to the left. But of course you can play however you like.

[SpartanNinja]

Shoot! I thought I had the quote thing figured out!

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by SpartanNinja

Shoot! I thought I had the quote thing figured out!

you need a {quote="someone's name"} before each quote and a {/quote} at the end, but replace the { and } with [ and ] (I couldn't do it because it would have actually shown up as a quote in my post.... man, I hope I didn't just confuse you more....)

[allskulls]

	
	

			
				

					Originally Posted by SpartanNinja
					
				
				
So shifting the rolled initiative like that is actually against the rules.
			
		

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Originally Posted by SpartanNinja

So shifting the rolled initiative like that is actually against the rules.

Rules? Ha.

Really, some rules are easily altered to benefit game balance and fun without detracted much at all from the game. One of the main ones, usually for tournaments, is victory points. Victory points is supposed to be derived from survival points but is usually taken from kill points or a combination of both.

[SpartanNinja]

Originally Posted by allskulls

Really, some rules are easily altered to benefit game balance and fun without detracted much at all from the game. One of the main ones, usually for tournaments, is victory points. Victory points is supposed to be derived from survival points but is usually taken from kill points or a combination of both.

I'm generally pretty strict on the rule following thing, but it is probably a rule that can amended if you wanted to. Still there are some aspects of the game that the clockwise turn order (such as the subject of this article, and even in game politics such as alliances) gives more practical advantages or disadvantages to.

Thanks for showing me the quote thing too.

[bunjee]

Originally Posted by SpartanNinja

I'm generally pretty strict on the rule following thing, but it is probably a rule that can amended if you wanted to. Still there are some aspects of the game that the clockwise turn order (such as the subject of this article, and even in game politics such as alliances) gives more practical advantages or disadvantages to.

Thanks for showing me the quote thing too.

We generally consider the clockwise thing to be the standard way of doing turns to avoid book keeping in most games. Since it is fairly random who sat where, changing the order after who goes first has not had much impact.

I think we started this because for the longest time, I always won initiative. In a freakishly consistent manner.