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  #397  
Old November 23rd, 2019, 03:45 PM
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Re: Help With Wurdz


Well met!

Upon reflection, I will make Ullarís Battle Cry trigger on attacks, and change Raniaís Personality to Disciplined.




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  #398  
Old April 14th, 2020, 06:03 PM
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Re: Help With Wurdz

I don't think anybody wants to help you with those words, henry.

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  #399  
Old April 14th, 2020, 07:31 PM
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Re: Help With Wurdz

Well, it's good to know that somebody was looking for my thread, anyway.

Edit: there was a spam post above sf’s that’s now gone.

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  #400  
Old August 16th, 2021, 01:54 AM
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Re: Help With Wurdz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Well, it's good to know that somebody was looking for my thread, anyway.
I'm often looking for your thread. The problem is that I usually catch myself asking too little about wurdzing and too much about workzhopping, and then I cancel my post. But perhaps today will be different; let's find out.

I can't decide how specific to be with this power. I thought maybe if I could wordsmith these to find a good balance of clarity and Scapiness for each approach, then that might help me make the simplicity vs. completeness decision. Or maybe you'll find some of these so inelegant that you recommend abandoning them outright.
CYBERHAMMER
[#1] When attacking a huge figure, a destructible object, or a figure affected by any Cyberclaw special power, figure name adds 2 attack dice. When attacking a small figure that is not affected by any Cyberclaw special power, figure name subtracts 1 attack die.

[#2] When attacking a huge figure, a destructible object, or a figure that is prevented from moving by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, figure name adds 2 attack dice. When attacking a small figure that is not prevented from moving by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, figure name subtracts 1 attack die.

[#3] When attacking a huge figure, a destructible object, or a figure that is prevented from moving (by a rule or any special power on an Army Card or Glyph), figure name adds 2 attack dice. When attacking a small figure that is not prevented from moving, figure name subtracts 1 attack die.
Obviously the latter two versions are trying to recognize that other move lockdowns would/should make it easier to connect with a Cyberhammer, and #3 is also trying to account for relevant Scenario rules. I found the following non-Cyberclaw effects in the current extended canon that #1 would ignore while #2 & #3 would try* to respect.
  • LAZY: Pel cannot move while engaged
  • WORTHY CHALLENGE: Marutuk cannot move while engaged with a large/huge figure
  • TROPHY SKULLS: Uzog is stuck for the rest of the round each time he gains a Skull Marker
(There are also the 8th Pathfinders and Zaeus, but their "cannot moves" are not continuous; they expire so quickly that they would never be in effect during a Cyberhammer attack.)

* Currently these three examples don't actually make a difference because Pel, Marutuk, and Uzog are all large or huge, and thus too big to dodge the +2 hammer even with their dancing shoes on. But if these powers were ever used on a small or medium figure, it would matter; thus I still consider them useful in speculating on whether there would ever be a future non-Cyberclaw move inhibition that would make us expect the hammer to be smart enough to handle it consistently.


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  #401  
Old August 16th, 2021, 10:59 PM
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Re: Help With Wurdz

Hi, JAB!

I'm happy to help out. You know I'm not the rules technician that you and Scy are, among others, but I'll throw in my 2 cents to help with wording, as requested.

My own preference is to write clearly, rather than to try to cover every counterintuitive corner case. All three are accurate, by which I mean that I don't have any formal correction to offer to any of them. They all communicate the theme clearly. I don't think the *theme* gains anything with the additional complexity in 2 & 3, and I (always) think that if you're not adding to the theme, then you better be darned sure you need the extra words on the card.

In other wurdz, I like them in order: 1, 2, then 3.

I really like the power. It's an effective, direct use of known mechanics to realize a new theme. Good job!

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  #402  
Old August 22nd, 2021, 11:36 PM
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Re: Help With Wurdz

Thanks for the help and kind words, DS. After reading your comments I think I have to agree with you that the added complexity is, as my wife says when referring to non-chocolate desserts, "not worth its calories." My OCD wants all of the research results to get their place on the card, but some of them just can't clear the relevance hurdle.

Here's a related wurdz dilemma. The phrase "any Cyberclaw special power" is of course intended to include Cyberclaw, X17's Improved Cyberclaw, and any other whatever Cyberclaw(s) that could come along in the future. I feel like this presentation is pretty clear, but in this game the question of how precise a text match needs to be in order to "count" is a bit inconclusive.

Arguments in support:
  • "Water" means both water and swamp water.
  • From a thematic standpoint, anything that responds to a "Cyberclaw" would logically respond to an Improved Cyberclaw.
  • Many powers refer to "non-flying" figures, and this clearly must include all non-stealth-flying figures.
Arguments in opposition:
  • Mika Connour is a Shadow Assassin, but of course this should not make her a "Shadow hero." (Though currently this is not an issue since the only reference so far is to Common Shadow heroes.)
  • Air Elemental's AIR MASTERY and Brandis Skyhunter's SKY WATCHER both refer to figures that have "the Flying or Stealth Flying special power."
The last bullet point implies that the phrase "the Flying special power" would not include Stealth Flying (otherwise the second half of the conjunction on those two units would be unnecessary). This in turn could imply that the phrase "the Cyberclaw special power" would not include the Improved Cyberclaw. Because of this, I purposely wrote "any Cyberclaw" so that if somebody asked whether it includes X17, his buddy could say "well, it does say ANY Cyberclaw...."

From your perspective, does that feel like a cheat? I really don't want to write "the Cyberclaw or Improved Cyberclaw special power" because as soon as a third one is created, it will create a thematic failure with the hammer. In fact, I have such a power in alpha development and thus I am likely to create the very problem I seek to avoid.

(As an aside, I don't look forward to the day that somebody comes up with some cool new variation on FLYING that gets a new modifier in its power name and thus fails to interact properly with the Air Els and Brandis. Or that has to have some ugly patch-clarification in its text that says, yes, this counts as the Flying special power for other special powers that reference Flying.)


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  #403  
Old August 26th, 2021, 12:22 AM
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Re: Help With Wurdz

Sorry to take so long to get back to you, @Just_a_Bill .

It *definitely* does not feel like a cheat to use "any cyberclaw" as you've described.

Please forgive the following preamble. After you wade through it, my answer awaits.

There are two sub-issues, here, of course. As a long-time user of these sub-forums, you understand that it's one thing to make a custom that you believe in. It's another thing to make a custom that will pass the SoV process. We never intended, at the beginning, that people would treat passing the SoV as a goal in itself. At the time - and we (or I, anyway) were naive to think this way - the goal was to pick and choose among the output of the robust custom-making community, and identify which customs were suitable for the official canon.

What happened was that we got to where we are now. Many in the customs-making community appear to be focused narrowly on whether their creations will survive the SoV process. It wasn't supposed to be that way, but so it is. Very well. As a golfer might say, we play the ball where it lies. I did not envision a future in which some creators would work backward from the goal: this is what would get through the SoV; I have these minis; I will do what I have to do in order to get this peg into that hole.

I really, strongly, prefer to see an expression of a creator's vision in the design process. As you have here. You see something in the mini and you want to express it clearly. I wish everybody approached the design process in that fashion.

Anyway. You ask if "any Cyberclaw special power" is clear enough. The answer is, of course it is. Yes and yes. Yes two times because it is certainly clear enough to express the answer for your own purposes: you know what you meant and the answer is obvious both to you and to those you'd be playing with in and near your own home. If it would help a friend or neighbor who - heaven help you - is a rules lawyer at your own level, please direct that person to this post: "Cyberclaw special power" clearly indicates Cyberclaw, Improved Cyberclaw, and any future power with the word "Cyberclaw" in it.

The second "yes" is because I think this also should satisfy the SoV-types. It's a fairly mild (IMHO) attempt at future-proofing a design, and I think (should it pass the process) its effect on open design space would be both (1) very limited and (2) predictable, so that wouldn't be an impediment to my voting one way or the other. Should I have the opportunity to do so.

I don't see your "arguments in opposition" as serious challenges to this outcome. The fact that some special powers call out "Flying or Stealth Flying" is not future-proofing, as you are intending to do. It's calling out widely-used existing powers, instead. In a way, that's an illustration of why you language works: by examining the precedent of Brandis, future designers know what they have to do, and what they have to avoid, to trigger an interaction with that power. Similarly, your "any cyberclaw power" signals to the reader what future designs will, and will not, trigger an interaction. The same is true of Mika Connour's situation. We learn from the card what the signposts are for future designs.

Does that answer your question?

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  #404  
Old September 28th, 2021, 05:25 PM
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Re: Help With Wurdz

The following question is in regards to a Thrall I'm working on.
TOXIC PURGE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 1.
Choose a figure to attack and roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, that figure subtracts 1 from their defense dice until the next order marker is revealed.


Is it better in this situation to say "until the end of your turn," or the way I have it now?

(P.S. the intent is that the defense debuff can stack)

Thanks!
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  #405  
Old September 28th, 2021, 06:27 PM
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Re: Help With Wurdz

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreThaGiant View Post
The following question is in regards to a Thrall I'm working on.
TOXIC PURGE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 1.
Choose a figure to attack and roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, that figure subtracts 1 from their defense dice until the next order marker is revealed.
Is it better in this situation to say "until the end of your turn," or the way I have it now?

(P.S. the intent is that the defense debuff can stack)

Thanks!
I'm assuming you want the defense decrease to affect the next Thrall's turn? If so, "end of your turn" won't work, because each Thrall gets a separate turn.

While what you have works, it's awkward. It's not an unwieldy memory mechanic, but it's an unnecessary one. I'd find a different way to create a defense reduction.
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  #406  
Old September 28th, 2021, 07:11 PM
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Re: Help With Wurdz

Scy, thank you so much for taking that one. I love helping people in this thread with wording questions, focused more on the writing side of things, but I don't claim to be at Scy's level of mastery of the rules. This question is definitely up his alley and not mine. I don't have anything to add.

Thanks for sharing your idea, @AndreThaGiant , and thanks to @Scytale for answering your question!

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  #407  
Old September 28th, 2021, 09:06 PM
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Re: Help With Wurdz

@AndreThaGiant
For stacking defense reduction, I look at the description of the Children of the Dark Stars' 'Otherwordly Stench' a bit. Though maybe they aren't very well related here.
Spoiler Alert!

Perhaps something like this:

"When a ____ Thrall attacks a figure with Toxic Purge Special Attack, subtract 1 from the defense value of the defending figure each time a ____ Thrall rolls a skull on that figure for the duration of your turn.

Last edited by SchismaticSounds; September 28th, 2021 at 09:39 PM.
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  #408  
Old September 29th, 2021, 11:49 AM
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Re: Help With Wurdz

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchismaticSounds View Post
@AndreThaGiant
For stacking defense reduction, I look at the description of the Children of the Dark Stars' 'Otherwordly Stench' a bit. Though maybe they aren't very well related here.
Spoiler Alert!

Perhaps something like this:

"When a ____ Thrall attacks a figure with Toxic Purge Special Attack, subtract 1 from the defense value of the defending figure each time a ____ Thrall rolls a skull on that figure for the duration of your turn.
Thanks for the insight Schis, however this ability is modeled after the 12th Caucasus Rifles which is a totally different direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I'm assuming you want the defense decrease to affect the next Thrall's turn? If so, "end of your turn" won't work, because each Thrall gets a separate turn.

While what you have works, it's awkward. It's not an unwieldy memory mechanic, but it's an unnecessary one. I'd find a different way to create a defense reduction.
I was wondering if there was a differentiation between "your" turn and a figure's turn. That clears things up. I was confident in choosing this verbiage, as Estivara has similar lingo for her Cloud of Darkness, "After taking a turn with Estivara, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, while she remains on that space, Estivara has no visible Hit Zone until the next time you reveal an order marker."

I know it's awkward, and originally it wasn't intended to stack. Some feedback guided me towards the potential to stack and I'm humoring the idea, as the area of effect was eliminated from the original clause referenced from the 12th Caucasus Rifles.
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