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  #37  
Old August 18th, 2021, 03:50 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

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Originally Posted by AndreThaGiant View Post
I'm loving all the input received so far, and I have a strong vision about this being a squad of at least 2 units (hopefully 3, depending on how the Chief looks). I'm likely going to be simplifying this card by dropping INCITE VIOLENCE and reverting to standard Warhulk Bonding. My question is, do you imagine there ever being a Small or Medium Warhulk in the future? When I think of Warhulk, I picture a Large unit at minimum. Considering Mok is a Warhulk, I'll have to add a size restriction on it. Should I just go "Small, Medium, or Large Warhulk you control"?
I'm not sure you need a restriction on size, I don't see Mok bonding with a non-dwarf squad to be problematic.
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  #38  
Old August 18th, 2021, 05:16 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

If his aim is SoV the in world reason for the bonding will be heavily scrutinized, so I'd advise for the smallest bonding web possible.

Customs are for home use and enjoyment first and foremost.
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  #39  
Old August 24th, 2021, 09:17 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Minis came in. The white one is basically out of the question at this point. How are we feeling about the green one @Scytale @Dad_Scaper @MegaSilver , questionable? Passable?
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  #40  
Old August 24th, 2021, 09:29 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Seeing photos of the actual figures next to each other really brings out the difference. I can't decide whether the green or the white look less fitting. If you try for a 3 person squad, you could have one of each color, but if you go with the two tan ones for a 2 person squad, I think they blend in with Motley much nicer than the rest.
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  #41  
Old August 24th, 2021, 10:15 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Yeah I picked up the minis as well. In person the white one looks like a white version of the tan, whereas the green one is far more distinct. I would either go 2 man tan or 3 man one of each color.


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  #42  
Old August 24th, 2021, 10:18 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Would vote for 1 of each as well if you decide to go for 3 man ^^

Customs are for home use and enjoyment first and foremost.
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  #43  
Old August 25th, 2021, 12:12 AM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

One of each looks best to me. If you have both tan ones, then the squad would look worse with whichever third one you go with.
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  #44  
Old August 25th, 2021, 01:34 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Cut one of the tan ones, and have a three man that are all different colors. If you use the two tan ones, then it looks weird that only one of them doesn't fit, but if you lean into the color mismatch as part of the theme, it should work well since they are mutants, which would logically all be slightly differently mutated.

If you wanted to use the 2 tan figures, I'd say you should make them a 2 man squad, and make the other 2 heros. So that's an option as well.
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  #45  
Old August 27th, 2021, 12:46 AM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs (New cards! 8/26/21)

I looked back at Motley Max's bio and remembered- his gang is not marauders or traders. They are fueled by destruction. Vandals as a class seems much more fitting. As does Nihilistic for the personality- inspired by Motley's bio. The green and white figures are ultimately off-putting to me, and so I'm going to continue this attempt as a 2-man squad (wish me luck). I've also renamed the secondary ability to ENVIRONMENTAL RESISTANCE 14 to more closely reflect Ziggo's ENVIRONMENTAL SUIT.

Let me know your thoughts!
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  #46  
Old August 27th, 2021, 02:44 AM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs (New cards! 8/26/21)

My experience playing Motley has left something to be desired. Perhaps I've been unlucky or not played him well, but a synergy for the lad would be nice. Currently, I don't see a ton of reason yet to bring these guys to the table other than for their bonding. Besides Environmental Resistance, a situational defense which isn't bad, their stats are quite general. One thing for certain, I do not think they are worth 50 points in this state, but that could need playtesting to declare.

Take Beakface Sneaks for instance (a recent favorite of mine) being 30 points. On the outside they appear general, but in many situations, they are taskmasters. With evasive 3 they are almost guaranteed a run in swipe unless engaged first. 6 movement, with a movement bonding of sorts for bringing in backup or holding glyphs and high ground.
Again, 30 points! Though bonding is valuable and 3 def is unarguable, I would experiment with lowering these guys to 40 and playtest, and I'd be happy to help playtest once you feel settled on something. Only bring up to 50+ if they have another ability involved. (The 2-figure squad I find most overpriced is the Banshees, though "situationally" against high defense squads, played right, they have a chance to make up for it.)

I quite liked Incite Violence as well. I can't recall exactly what was disagreed on about it in your pre pre SoV critique, wherever that was, besides the Ogre Warhulks Flail. (Edit: *facepalm* I now see it is this very thread renamed*). It felt fitting, and could be worked with. Maybe it doesn't have to only be for Warhulks. Or maybe you could have the option to sacrifice an adjacent Vandal to add +3 to your resulted Engagement Strike roll, (thematically where the vandal gets involved, causing the engagement wound, but taking a wound in return).

Anyway, I'm sure I'm looking into this early rehash of these guys a bit too much, but its nice to keep that ball rolling. I’d say hold onto your vision on them mainly as a MM posse, and any other (not broken) synergies that come along should be welcomed.

An option for using the other 2 figures could be uncommon heroes like the Skull Demons are with separate models. Or unique heroes. Or maybe they are in necessary.

Final note. I feel "Vandals" could work, but Nihilistic doesn't feel right to me. I see it only as a view or belief than personality. How does the Nihilism affect their personality? Does it make them "wild", "careless", "fearlees", "reckless", etc?

Last edited by SchismaticSounds; August 27th, 2021 at 03:36 AM. Reason: Perfection is approachable
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  #47  
Old August 27th, 2021, 11:24 AM
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AndreThaGiant AndreThaGiant is offline
 
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs (New cards! 8/26/21)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchismaticSounds View Post
Take Beakface Sneaks for instance (a recent favorite of mine) being 30 points. On the outside they appear general, but in many situations, they are taskmasters. With evasive 3 they are almost guaranteed a run in swipe unless engaged first. 6 movement, with a movement bonding of sorts for bringing in backup or holding glyphs and high ground.
Again, 30 points! Though bonding is valuable and 3 def is unarguable, I would experiment with lowering these guys to 40 and playtest, and I'd be happy to help playtest once you feel settled on something. Only bring up to 50+ if they have another ability involved. (The 2-figure squad I find most overpriced is the Banshees, though "situationally" against high defense squads, played right, they have a chance to make up for it.)
I could picture that. Comparing them to the other Valkrill 2-mans...
Death Knights: 2 attack (with a -2 defense debuff), 60 pts.
Mezzos: 3 attack (with range, and +1 life per mezzo), 65 pts.
Tomb Archers: 1 attack (2 if target's unengaged, with range), 30 pts.

I would consider them at 40 pts. If I bring their attack up to 4, they'll likely stay around 50. We have to factor in the bonding into their point value as well. I'll take you up on playtesting when the time comes

Quote:
I quite liked Incite Violence as well. Maybe you could have the option to sacrifice an adjacent Vandal to add +3 to your resulted Engagement Strike roll, (thematically where the vandal gets involved, causing the engagement wound, but taking a wound in return).
I've also considered this, but by giving them a survivability power, it would be going in the opposite direction to make them sacrificial. I removed the power altogether when someone put something into perspective for me. Motley already lands his hook 75% of the time, he doesn't need any help with those odds. On top of that, the mechanic would need to be reverse (conditional) bonding like I had before. It ended up being too convoluted and difficult to engineer. I'll leave the reverse bonding to C3V . What I've learned about SoV so far- a card doesn't need 3+ abilities to have flavor. It can be just as flavorful with 2

If I do go the route of a d20 boost for Warhulks, it would probably be on the card of a Unique Warhulk with WARHULK SUPREMACY +1 anytime you roll the d20 for a Warhulk.

Quote:
Final note. I feel "Vandals" could work, but Nihilistic doesn't feel right to me. I see it only as a view or belief than personality. How does the Nihilism affect their personality? Does it make them "wild", "careless", "fearlees", "reckless", etc?
Maybe even Merciless like their merciless leader Motley..
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  #48  
Old August 29th, 2021, 02:09 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs (New cards! 8/26/21)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreThaGiant View Post
I looked back at Motley Max's bio and remembered- his gang is not marauders or traders. They are fueled by destruction. Vandals as a class seems much more fitting. As does Nihilistic for the personality- inspired by Motley's bio. The green and white figures are ultimately off-putting to me, and so I'm going to continue this attempt as a 2-man squad (wish me luck). I've also renamed the secondary ability to ENVIRONMENTAL RESISTANCE 14 to more closely reflect Ziggo's ENVIRONMENTAL SUIT.

Let me know your thoughts!
I like where this is headed. However, I’m a big fan of 2 person squads and Motley Max, so I may be a bit biased.

My first thoughts on this is that the points are too high for those base stats and powers where they are currently. I know that was mentioned, so I won’t go into great detail there. That being said, I think 45 to 55 is a terrific spot for this type of squad. Going for less points is going to leave them squishy and/or uninteresting. Also, ending in that “5” helps with Max’s odd point cost. Because honestly with the role they’re designed for, 3 squads is about perfect.

Max 135
3x Vandals 135-165 depending…
270-300 total which leaves plenty of room for something else.

Maybe consider upping their move and defense by 1. Those sculpts look quick and agile, so I think the extra move and defense could be justified.

The bonding is nice! It’s simple and the size restriction is great too! Bonding with Mok could easily break them.

However, if you’re not sold on the size restriction, you could limit it to Valkrill Warhulks. It opens up future possibilities with different sized figures while still keeping Max as the primary option. (Which is what I believe you’re going for.) The other thought I had was to reverse the bonding. Let the warhulk take a turn after them. It’s like Max is sending out the expendable rabble to deal with people beneath him or to hold his victims in place while he mercilessly attacks them.

The name on the other power is a bit off to me. I get where you’re coming from, but with that name I don’t think Special Attacks should be included. However, I like very much that it works on Special Attacks! It gives you a reason to draft them even without a Warhulk. So I think you should definitely keep that concept in the design. I made a 2 person squad very similar to this one for Einar. Apocalyptic survivors who wear protective garb to protect them from terrain and special powers that deal wounds. It’s almost identical to this (which could explain why I am a fan of this custom). I called mine “Protective Garb”. That obviously won’t work on mutants in loincloths, but you could go with something like “Scaly Skin”, “Tough Skin”, “Thick Skin”, etc. You could also just split it into 2 powers. Environmental Resistance for the terrain effects, and something like Iron Resolve for the Special Attack. 3 powers on a common card is not unheard of (Cathar’s for example).

Finally, I absolutely love the name! (Weirdly enough, I named my 2 person unit Survivors of the Barren Wastes. I guess we both envision Max’s world the same. ) It describes the unit perfectly!

I think nihilistic works for a personality too. Thanos introduced it, and that should be enough to make it work. After all, I think “arrogant” exists in Classic scape because of Ironman.

Keep up the good work! I’m looking forward to where this one ends up.
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