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Architects of the Realms of Valhalla Discussion and presentation of the maps approved by the ARV.


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  #361  
Old August 26th, 2021, 09:07 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Thank you judges for your reviews on Drider! I am so pleased Nomad and Sir H had some great games on the little bugger, but also understand the points Flash_19 has made which echoed some of my own wrinkles I wasnt sure Id ironed out. Id like to propose the following revision in hopes that it alleviates some of the issues mentioned while retaining the commendable aspects.

Ive implemented Flashs direct advice of removing both single hex outcrops and leaving their bases as shadow tiles. Addressing the movement issues in the north near Lodin has been a long standing struggle in designing this map. Id originally made the decision to place the shadow tiles in those spots to weaken the level 3 central perch as much as possible even if it restricted development; I was hoping the small size of the map would even that decision out a hair. Removing the outcrops retains two hexes of shadow to contest the perch as well as increasing the amount of spaces it can be attacked from by two. I feel this weakens the perch enough to let me rearrange the original northern section, connecting the road, and removing the shadow dip. The shadows now surrounding Lodin provide some mobility around the glyph and keep the north inviting enough to still want to use.
EDIT: Updated to fix double space glyph denial for Lodin. Lodin moved to lvl 0 and the single dungeon hex moved just south of the outcrop to further speed up lateral movement.

Also a bonus, now the top down kinda looks like a dude with a mustache or a teddy bear face...

UPDATED DRIDER PDF

New and improved:

Last edited by Ulysses; September 8th, 2021 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Update glyph denial
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  #362  
Old September 8th, 2021, 08:31 AM
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Re: Workshop Thread

@Ulysses
So sorry I didn't see this earlier. I thought I was subscribed to this thread - I'll have to double check that. I'm totally down to review the updated version.
@Sir Heroscape and @Nomad

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  #363  
Old September 8th, 2021, 11:06 AM
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Re: Workshop Thread

oh wow, yeah I thought I was subscribed to this as well...oops.

to review the new Drider.
@Ulysses can you please post a link to the new build instructions?

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  #364  
Old September 8th, 2021, 02:41 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_19 View Post
@Ulysses
So sorry I didn't see this earlier. I thought I was subscribed to this thread - I'll have to double check that. I'm totally down to review the updated version.
@Sir Heroscape and @Nomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
oh wow, yeah I thought I was subscribed to this as well...oops.

to review the new Drider.
@Ulysses can you please post a link to the new build instructions?
No problem! My subscribed posts never send me updates except for the very first one or two I set up.
I've updated my post with the build instructions.
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  #365  
Old September 8th, 2021, 06:32 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_19 View Post
@Ulysses
So sorry I didn't see this earlier. I thought I was subscribed to this thread - I'll have to double check that. I'm totally down to review the updated version.
@Sir Heroscape and @Nomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
oh wow, yeah I thought I was subscribed to this as well...oops.

to review the new Drider.
@Ulysses can you please post a link to the new build instructions?
No problem! My subscribed posts never send me updates except for the very first one or two I set up.
I've updated my post with the build instructions.

Thumbs up to reviewing the revised Drider and I am looking forward to it. I will get it built this weekend and then start playtesting.
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  #366  
Old November 14th, 2021, 01:01 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Request for Workshopping
Bloodbath BLVD



hsc. File

My Intent is to Learn. What it takes to make this map Tournament Ready.

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  #367  
Old November 14th, 2021, 05:23 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

@Joecrazy3193 to start, glad to see you utilizing this thread when not enough people do! so we'll see what we can do to assist in your quest to make this map better.

First off, it'd be really good to read up on some of our ARV Articles HERE. Specifically, read up on the "Map Craft" Articles as we discuss important aspects of building competitive and balanced maps. Starting there should help give you a bit more footing on what is expected of a "tournament-worthy" map and pitfalls to look for when designing your own maps.

One of the most useful articles covers a "checklist" that will help you when you build your map to make sure it's balanced (see spoiler below).

Spoiler Alert!


I'll give some of my comments in referring to that checklist to start. Generally, our standard is if you can answer yes to 2 or more of those checklist questions, you’ll likely want to revise your map. Some maps can get away with doing 1 of those things, but when it does 2 or more the map can tend to be too imbalanced.

Checklist
  1. This map actually doesn't have an obvious "Raelin-spot"
  2. This map Startzone to Startzone is only 11 hexes away. That's actually pretty close for conflict and can make for some early Zelrig bombs or other ranged attacks into the Startzone turn 1 before the opponent even gets a turn. Even Nilf can start attacking the Startzone on turn 1.
  3. This map is actually pretty open
  4. Hive can be placed
  5. The flat area right under the ruin out of the startzone would be a pod armies spot to setup. There are 4 spaces that can get view on most of the map, and keep from getting engaged. That said, it's not an inherently broken position...so I'd give this * if the map had glyphs but a without glyphs. Glyphs on maps can help punish armies that prefer to stay near the startzone and pod up.
  6. N/A - no glyphs
  7. No elevation in the SZ
  8. N/A - no glyphs
  9. It's a pretty open map
  10. Armies can develop quickly
You'll notice that in terms of balance, the map does a pretty good job on the checklist. The 2 big balance concerns with this map are how close the SZ's are for early Turn 1 power plays and the lack of glyphs that can make it more likely for an army that wants to pod to sit back under the ruin and pot-shot all day long.

In addition to the above checklist, there are a few other things worth noting, that gave this map a "low score", and which coincide with my notes above:
  • While not required, there are no power glyphs on the map. Power glyphs can be a really good way to help balance a map to keep the whole map used and the conflict flowing...otherwise it can be a bit too "campy" at times when armies (specifically ranged armies) can sit back and ping at opponents.
  • Use more of the terrain in the sets. The Dungeon and Marvel sets are already really low on terrain count compared to the other sets, I think it'd be important to try and utilize as much of the terrain as possible. Using more of the terrain will help you space out the map a little more so SZ's aren't so close.
  • There's no need for the 2nd level of castle wall. While aesthetically pleasing, it really doesn't do anything for gameplay. Practically speaking, that second level can make it tougher for someone to prebuild and transport the map to a tournament, and for those playing on it, it's easier to knock over.
  • Keep in mind this was a contest of individual maps on merit, but also compared to other maps in the contest. In other words, your maps weren't horrible (clearly there's some good things going here), it's just that when you compare the merits of this map against the others, other maps did a better job in our categories.
So...yes, that was a lot. Basically, here would be my suggestions:
  • Remove 2nd level castle wall.
  • Add power glyphs. 2 on the edges would be my suggestion.
  • Use more of the (if not all) terrain from the Dungeon and Marvel sets to help "build out" the map a little more.
Start with that, and then we can go from there as you come up with new versions.

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  #368  
Old November 15th, 2021, 10:12 AM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Request for Workshopping:
DRAGON'S TEETH
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  #369  
Old November 18th, 2021, 08:06 AM
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Re: Workshop Thread

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Originally Posted by AndreThaGiant View Post
Request for Workshopping:
DRAGON'S TEETH
Thanks for bringing your map to the workshop!

The general concerns I had with your map (and I think this goes for some of the other judges as well) were as follows:

1) I want to see more dynamic height distribution throughout the map - this creates greater depth and allows for more strategic play because there are more interesting decisions to be made.

2) This critique builds off the first - there is quite a bit of terrain available in the sets you chose that you haven't used. You don't have to use everything, but you have the terrain to add greater depth and variety to your map, so I'd encourage you to do so.

3) The middle of the map looks like it could cause some headaches - there are a few choke points through the middle because of the orientation of the two ruins. With the way the glyphs are positioned (in the middle of the path instead of towards the outside edge), coming through the sides to flank an opponent will be harder - not to mention that a lot of that section is on level 0. This means most of the action is probably going to take place in the middle, and you'll want to make sure the action flows well through that part of the map.


As a few positive notes - I love the shape, and I love the clear and concise start zones. I also really like the over all look of the map, so don't go too crazy in trying to overhaul the whole thing.

Let me know if you'd like further clarification or help! Maybe some other judges will weigh in here too. @Sir Heroscape @Nomad @heroscaper2010

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  #370  
Old November 19th, 2021, 11:08 AM
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Re: Workshop Thread

I second a lot of what Flash pointed out. My issues had to do with:
1) Flatness of the map
2) The edges can be clogged down by 1 figure on a glyph
3) The center is easily clogged up

Specifically for this map, think Rats. Rats break this map mercilessly. You just need a 1 squad to essentially lock up the "clog zones" and if you have a few more, all the better to fill and replace. What's more, it really goes for any army. Even all melee will struggle to combat through those chokepoints. Aesthetically I agree it looks quite good, but it does have some issues on the outset.

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  #371  
Old November 19th, 2021, 05:22 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Looking at all of your Notes as well as asking for some extra assistance from the Discord page I have a second version of Bloodbath BLVD.
Trying to make the Map Fun, Competitive, Intense,and Aesthetically Pleasing with keeping the Theme of a City Environment.

.HSC

PDF of Bloodbath BLVD



>I did extended the SZs from 11 to 13 spaces away from each other
>added Glyphs
>opened an alleyway on the right side of the map
>narrowed the map in order to focus player movement on the left of the map
>Removed 2nd story of Castle Walls

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  #372  
Old November 20th, 2021, 02:33 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecrazy3193 View Post
Looking at all of your Notes as well as asking for some extra assistance from the Discord page I have a second version of Bloodbath BLVD.
Trying to make the Map Fun, Competitive, Intense,and Aesthetically Pleasing with keeping the Theme of a City Environment.

.HSC

PDF of Bloodbath BLVD



>I did extended the SZs from 11 to 13 spaces away from each other
>added Glyphs
>opened an alleyway on the right side of the map
>narrowed the map in order to focus player movement on the left of the map
>Removed 2nd story of Castle Walls
So my recommendations for next steps would be these:

1) The more power glyphs you have, the more of an advantage strong glyph holders like deathreavers have on the map. These strong glyph holders also have a large advantage when both sides can't access/contest glyphs in the same way. To be more specific - when a 6-move figure can access a glyph in two turns, where it takes 5-move figures 3 turns, that gives those 6 move figures an advantage. That situation applies for your map as it stands right now. It is also a problem when one glyph is easier for one side to control because it is significantly closer to their start zone. The game often turns into "your glyph, my glyph" and the team with the stronger glyph closer to them (or just better glyph for their army) gets a significant advantage.

2) Development out of the start zone still needs some adjusting in my opinion. Height distribution throughout a map is a vital consideration when planning out a map. Where that height is located and how easy it is to get to that height strongly influences how armies move out of a start zone. As you keep working on your map I would suggest that you think a lot about where armies are going to go, and where they aren't going to go based on desirability of position. In general, you want as much of the board as possible to be used.

3) Aesthetic is important, but balance is even more important. I realize you're going for a certain look, but I think it's creating problems for the overall balance. Dips in terrain can create problems in ranged versus melee matchups by forcing melee units to move down, thereby sacrificing height, in order to get to ranged units who are taking shots down at them. The way your map is set up is basically one massive dip through the entire map. The shadow tiles do help, and the defense glyph probably helps too - but I'm still torn on that one.

4) I would playtest your map as is right now with melee versus ranged armies. Have the ranged army be something like 4th Mass or 10th Reg and take careful note of where those armies want to pod up, and what parts of the map they have control over when they're podded up.

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