The Pre-SoV Workshop

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I think it's perfectly fine for someone to . . . try to make a canon-acceptable custom that helps the Imperium or any other subpar units.

I think that it's perfectly possible to design a custom that does.

Agree with the first, but unsure of the second.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I appreciate the reasoning (along with the other suggestions that everyone has made), but I still believe that designing a canon custom that helps them is as valid of a choice to pursue as any other. Just as someone might find that choice to be too much of a stretch, I think it's perfectly fine for someone to like that option the most, and to at least try to make a canon-acceptable custom that helps the Imperium or any other subpar units.

I absolutely like the idea of doing this, but some units, particularly the more expensive ones, are, IMO, too far gone to be helped through external factors, and any attempt to do so will result in limited army compositions and just end up feeling forced. I am absolutely for units that help other units out, like the Zettian Infantry or the Crypt Guardians or Zaeus. I just don't think the Imperium can be helped in that way (or the Grok Cavalry or Taelord, for that matter).
Now if someone wanted to design a figure to help out, say, the McDirks, I'm all for it - I believe @superfrog has a highlander champion who makes their defence less crappy, that's the sort of 'fix' unit that I'd actually love to see.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

Well met!

Agree with the first, but unsure of the second.

I think it's possible, and so that won't stop me from trying.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I absolutely like the idea of doing this, but some units, particularly the more expensive ones, are, IMO, too far gone to be helped through external factors, and any attempt to do so will result in limited army compositions and just end up feeling forced. I am absolutely for units that help other units out, like the Zettian Infantry or the Crypt Guardians or Zaeus. I just don't think the Imperium can be helped in that way (or the Grok Cavalry or Taelord, for that matter).

It's certainly tricky when trying to improve an overpriced unit, especially one like the Einar Imperium where in order to capitalize on their common status, you almost always have to devote over half of your army to them. That said, I think that there are still ways to get around it; it'll just be a lot tougher than making a unit to improve stuff like Deathwalker 7000 or Deadeye Dan.

I really like @BiggaBullfrog 's suggestion of creating an Uncommon Hero, for example, to avoid centralizing a ton of power in a single figure along with more subtly increasing the army's figure count. That then gives more build flexibility as well, allowing for more options to mix and match different ratios of units. A Unique Hero is probably out of the question for substantially improving the Imperium, but cheaper Uncommon Heroes might work (assuming the community is fine with an Uncommon Kyrie Hero).

[Kinseth]

I just don't see an avenue for "Helping" a Stealth flying squad who has the possibility to drop 6 attacks of 4(Height) in a given round. They are expensive because they have the swing for the fences mentality. I don't think they "Need" help.

Really cool looking miniature, I'd design it as a stand alone figure that has no synergies directly to EI.

[Pumpkin_King]

Even if the hero in question just gave them, say, Evasive 1?

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

Even if the hero in question just gave them, say, Evasive 1?

Wouldn't help the fact that they're overpriced, and in fact a hero like that costing extra pennies would just make them effectively cost even more, so....

[Sir Heroscape]

I find it bizarre and contradictory that we - generally speaking- accept that certain units like the Imperium are overpriced and poorly designed for their output, and yet are unwilling to do anything to help them - per some of those commenting on this discussion.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

I find it bizarre and contradictory that we - generally speaking- accept that certain units like the Imperium are overpriced and poorly designed for their output, and yet are unwilling to do anything to help them - per some of those commenting on this discussion.

I just don't think there's much that can be done for them that's would feel satisfactory.

[Dysole]

If there was no range, EI would easily earn their points. They're priced so highly because they get six attacks a turn, can't be held in place, and will likely have height. Range eats them alive though.

It may easily have been that the OD team played them in their best case situation and priced them (and may have even dropped their defense) according to that.

I'm not inherently opposed to a unit that works to mitigate their weaknesses, but it'll need to be done right and because of who I am as a person I don't see it as pressing.

~Dysole, who notes that much of VC would've designed Deathcommander much differently if it was designed right now and so keep that in mind when designing a "fix it" unit

[kolakoski]

Well met!

I really liked DCM3’s special attack, but the rest of his special powers were not so hot (or I didn’t understand how to play them). What would you change?

[kolakoski]

Well met!

On a similar note, have you considered a protocol for revaluation?

[Dysole]

I no longer have any real decision power in the VC so I don't know the answers to those questions. I just know that DCM3 would be designed differently if it was designed now from all of my observations. Units have become more rigorous since then to not just be fixes for existing units

~Dysole, not really with more insight than that