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  #13  
Old January 13th, 2014, 05:06 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Quote:
Originally Posted by chas View Post
Con Against Mixing: "Supers are so powerful that Classics are useless."

Pro For Mixing: "I can take the Hulk or anyone else down with the right combo of Classics. And then you've lost all those points you invested in one character."
After I saw the C3G Doctor Doom get destroyed not once but TWICE by a group of C3G Civilians recently, I have definitely had to rethink the idea that some characters are just too powerful to fall to low-point common squaddies. Admittedly, the Civilians aren't a 'Classic' unit, but considering that the figure that took down Doom both times was only rolling 1 Attack die, it was a very similar situation to what you might find with a Classic unit like Deathreavers or Blade Gruts going up against a high-cost Hero.

Generally in my games, players seem to pick anywhere from 1 to 3 Unique 'Supers', then fill their ranks out with squad figures, often from the Classic roster - so there's not really a lot of Supers-only vs Classic-only battles going on. To be fair though, in my last Tournament one player fielded an all-Classic Marro Army with his most powerful hero being the 220 point Tor-Kul-Na. He went up against an all-C3G Army consisting of Lex Luthor, 12 Bodyguards, and the 380 point Cyborg Superman. Tor-Kul-Na destroyed the Cyborg very early in the game and it seemed like he would be assured an easy victory, yet somehow the remaining 280 points worth of Lex and his Bodyguards were still able to win the day against 600+ points of Marro. I guess my point is, there is so much luck involved that there really ISN'T such a thing as a 'too powerful' unit in Heroscape as long as the points are balanced correctly and you play with a modicum of strategy and common sense.

Now I want to go home and try Hulk vs an equal number of Blade Gruts, just for kicks!

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grishnakh View Post
What about going the other way? It occurred to me, has anyone just taken the stats for the 10 supers and created new fantasy or sci fi figures that would fit into the theme of Heroscape? Instead of Hulk use a unique hero troll figure for example and redo the card with a new miniature picture. Ironman could be a Vydar robot. Retains an "official" Hasbro produced figure but takes the theme away from the super hero universe. Anyway, just a thought.
This is an awesome idea for a custom project, and an interesting psychological experiment. What if the Marvel set had never happened but Hasbro didn't want to waste the development time they'd put into the figures, so Iron Man's stats were slapped on a Vydar card with a generic Robot mini and the name "Marshal 1-M" - would Classic players embrace him? If Spidey was instead a masterful 160 point Ninja with a Sixth Sense, a Grappling Hook and an Entangling Net Special Attack, would he be welcomed into player's armies? I really like this!

Last edited by Garada; January 13th, 2014 at 05:20 PM.
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  #14  
Old January 13th, 2014, 05:11 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Grish:

Now, that just crazy talk! Anybody want to take up that challenge?

Garada:

I'm laughing myself silly. Obviously, it didn't happen in Latveria...
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  #15  
Old January 13th, 2014, 05:26 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

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Originally Posted by chas View Post
Garada:

I'm laughing myself silly. Obviously, it didn't happen in Latveria...
LOL! The crazy thing is, the player using Doom STILL won the game - he had 2 Doombots in play and was able to make that 6+ roll to bring back his destroyed Doctor Doom BOTH TIMES. Once Doom was back on the battlefield with full-health for a THIRD time [and he still had 10 Deathreavers on the board], it was pretty much all over for the other player - who only had a handful of Civilians left at that point. Again, so much of it is luck and risk-taking.
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  #16  
Old January 13th, 2014, 05:37 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Quote:
Originally Posted by chas View Post
Grish:

Now, that just crazy talk! Anybody want to take up that challenge?
Just thinking outside of the box my friend.....

Honestly, I'm surprised this has never been done. Or has it? Too lazy to search...

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  #17  
Old January 13th, 2014, 06:07 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Well met!

I do not dispute the original Marvel units' empirical balance. I concede that they do not break the game, again empirically. My objection to Supers is that they mess with the feel of the game. The Romance of the game. In Valhalla, the greatest Heroes are known. Syvarris. Sonlen. Drake. Kaemon Awa. You know them all. And where they stand in the panoply of true Heroes. But, when you add the Supers,

Hyperbole Alert!

freaky, costumed A-Rods and neurotic techno-geeks, with stats as pumped up as their other biological and technological organs,

Hyperbole Alert!

the Heroes you can identify with, as they are generic and you have been making up your own backstory for them through their performance on the table for years, are relegated to supporting role status. It's not power creep. It's power sprint on steroids. There is a Romantic elegance about the look and feel of Heroscape that is broken when Supers are introduced. Warmachine is a Kaemon clone with technological enhancements, and better stats. Kaemon will not be relegated to being a sentimental figure on my table! Which is what would happen if Supers are ever allowed into Valhalla.
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  #18  
Old January 13th, 2014, 08:40 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Kolakoski:

And yet you do have your own favorite comic characters, and some feeling for them. Paradoxical?

I have a mythological or shamanic "relationship" both with my favorite generally heroic archetypes, which some Classic heroes as you mention represent, and their Super avatars. Sharwin Wildborn brings out my love of Tolkein type High Elves. ("Sharwin is the Captain of any army she joins. No one outranks an Eladrin"). Kelda as a Healer shows up in my army more than Raelin as Protector, because my characters deserve a second chance, and I don't like sacrificing them like pawns.

I don't know what this means. But I enjoy dancing with my favorites, and some of them are the Supers of my childhood. The Old Religion had many Gods for a reason. They peek out at you from many high quality Japanese anime, which represent one of the few pre-monotheistic societies still flourishing. Or, reconceived as angels, from later cosmic structures.

Oops-went Meta there for a moment.

Last edited by chas; January 13th, 2014 at 10:29 PM.
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  #19  
Old January 13th, 2014, 10:05 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grishnakh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas View Post
Grish:

Now, that just crazy talk! Anybody want to take up that challenge?
Just thinking outside of the box my friend.....

Honestly, I'm surprised this has never been done. Or has it? Too lazy to search...
Here's my vote for a Hulk stand-in that could fit within Valhalla:

Spoiler Alert!


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  #20  
Old January 13th, 2014, 10:17 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Brucie The Barbarian?
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  #21  
Old January 13th, 2014, 10:36 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

He's "Green Scar" from the Planet Hulk comic series. Creatures from all over the universe brought to one planet to fight each other... sounds kind of like this game I've played a few times.
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  #22  
Old January 13th, 2014, 10:58 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Very cool! More stuff to look up on Wikipedia...
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  #23  
Old January 13th, 2014, 11:19 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grishnakh View Post
What about going the other way? It occurred to me, has anyone just taken the stats for the 10 supers and created new fantasy or sci fi figures that would fit into the theme of Heroscape? Instead of Hulk use a unique hero troll figure for example and redo the card with a new miniature picture. Ironman could be a Vydar robot. Retains an "official" Hasbro produced figure but takes the theme away from the super hero universe.
To my knowledge, no one's ever done this, but those of us who have no problem with mixing any and all Heroscape figures together have often used that idea as a thought experiment to refute the other side whenever this subject comes up.

Take Thanos, for example - if Hasbro had ever released the Valkyrie generals as figures and designed, say, Utgar with the same stats and powers that Thanos has, I doubt anyone would've been saying that Utgar was incompatible with Heroscape. Take that same card, change the figure's name and dress him in some tight clothing and you get quite a different reaction.
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  #24  
Old January 13th, 2014, 11:21 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Definitely watch Planet Hulk, Chas. It's a great movie.



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