Extra Abilities

[GreyOwl]

Yeah, I see where you guys are coming from and I agree that it's not something that should be applied on a large scale to most customs. But for guys like the Mandarin, it didn't make sense to me to only have some of his rings and not others, yet having unlimited access to all ten just sounded crazy, too.

[IAmBatman]

I would agree that it sounds useful for a guy like Mandarin. Equipment cards also come in handy for these types of things with a limit on the card for how many powers you can use at once.

[GreyOwl]

So can your equipment cards be used by anyone or can they be restricted to only one figure?

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

Yeah, I see where you guys are coming from and I agree that it's not something that should be applied on a large scale to most customs. But for guys like the Mandarin, it didn't make sense to me to only have some of his rings and not others, yet having unlimited access to all ten just sounded crazy, too.

Even then, the 10 rings aren't all that necessary to state individually. At least half of them are various forms of ranged attacks and are pretty well summed up by the Range/Attack stat. People tend to forget that normal attacks are often just as super and shiny as the Special ones. Iron Man doesn't need a "Repulsar Blast Special Attack" to fire a beam out of each hand when he attacks.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

So can your equipment cards be used by anyone or can they be restricted to only one figure?

I usually have them restricted to one figure - the only ones I've really done it for so far are Green Lanterns, though.
That said, the Kryptonite cards (which need some reworking) are available for anyone to use.

[GreyOwl]

So if they're restricted to just one figure (usually) then I think we're essentially talking about the same thing. I'm just using tokens to keep track of the limited number of uses.

[IAmBatman]

Yep, pretty much sounds like it. I think it's a lot easier to have the equipment card built into the cost of the original card. I'm trying not to have too many like that, though.
Oh, forgot, Lex Luthor also has an add on Battlesuit, that actually costs more than he does.

[GreyOwl]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

Even then, the 10 rings aren't all that necessary to state individually. At least half of them are various forms of ranged attacks and are pretty well summed up by the Range/Attack stat. People tend to forget that normal attacks are often just as super and shiny as the Special ones. Iron Man doesn't need a "Repulsar Blast Special Attack" to fire a beam out of each hand when he attacks.

If you're just looking at the range and attack value, then you're correct. But there are some figures that are resistant to fire, ice, explosive attacks, etc. where the different options might make a difference.

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

If you're just looking at the range and attack value, then you're correct. But there are some figures that are resistant to fire, ice, explosive attacks, etc. where the different options might make a difference.

Heroscape generally doesn't have any sort of elemental system like this. Every once in a while a custom comes along that avoids "attacks that imply fire damage", but I'd never consider them a well worded ability for the game. The name of a special ability is just for flavor and should never be used to alter damage types or otherwise imply how the power works. The only thing that should limit abilities are the clear, database driven qualifiers (race, height, size, class, unique/common, hero/squad, personality, general and maybe someday homeworld).

[GreyOwl]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I think it's a lot easier to have the equipment card built into the cost of the original card.

That's the conclusion I came to as well. No cost for the extra card, and just include the cost for the main figure.

[GreyOwl]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

Heroscape generally doesn't have any sort of elemental system like this. Every once in a while a custom comes along that avoids "attacks that imply fire damage", but I'd never consider them a well worded ability for the game. The name of a special ability is just for flavor and should never be used to alter damage types or otherwise imply how the power works. The only thing that should limit abilities are the clear, database driven qualifiers (race, height, size, class, unique/common, hero/squad, personality, general and maybe someday homeworld).

True. HS includes elemental effects only through the terrain, like the Lava Resistant and Slither abilities. But sometimes this leads to seeming innaccuracies, even though I know the designers probably did it intentionally to keep the game simple. Things like how Obsidian Guards aren't harmed by lava, but they are by Mimring's fire breath. If these can be addressed in customs to make the characters more "accurate" without disrupting game play and making it too complex, I don't see an issue with it. Not that it should always be done. For example, I made my Human Torch custom resistant to flame attacks, but I did no such equivalent for Iceman being resistant to ice attacks. It just depends how much it would complicate the figure and what benefit you would derive from it. This is very similar to how Toxic Skin doesn't affect Soulborgs (even though that is based on species, as you pointed out).

For the special attacks, like the Mandarin's rings, I think there's more than just range and attack value to differentiate them, even without introducing the elemental effects. Things like how many figures are affected, whether line of sight is necessary, does it affect friendly figures or not, does it affect the figure using it or not, etc.

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

True. HS includes elemental effects only through the terrain, like the Lava Resistant and Slither abilities. But sometimes this leads to seeming innaccuracies, even though I know the designers probably did it intentionally to keep the game simple. Things like how Obsidian Guards aren't harmed by lava, but they are by Mimring's fire breath. If these can be addressed in customs to make the characters more "accurate" without disrupting game play and making it too complex, I don't see an issue with it. Not that it should always be done. For example, I made my Human Torch custom resistant to flame attacks, but I did no such equivalent for Iceman being resistant to ice attacks. It just depends how much it would complicate the figure and what benefit you would derive from it. This is very similar to how Toxic Skin doesn't affect Soulborgs (even though that is based on species, as you pointed out).

For the special attacks, like the Mandarin's rings, I think there's more than just range and attack value to differentiate them, even without introducing the elemental effects. Things like how many figures are affected, whether line of sight is necessary, does it affect friendly figures or not, does it affect the figure using it or not, etc.

But that's my entire point. You can give him 10 different special attacks if you wish, all slightly different in function and ability, but you're probably not going to get a ton of use out of all 10 of them. It's far better to use one or two character defining abilities and then lump the remaining abilities into a more general power that embodies the nature of the character.

Its just a matter of proper game design. If you give too much, you're either going to wind up with a character that is too powerful or a character with a lot of unnecessary abilities. Considering the average unit only takes about a 6-10 turns over the course of a game, the likelyhood of making adequate use of more than 3 to 5 abilities is pretty slim, especially if they are all variant special attacks. More importantly, the character just won't play consistently and develop the proper personality in battle, which is critical for giving them the proper feel.