Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion - Page 659

superfrog · #**7897** February 21st, 2023, 12:35 PM

I should have some votes coming soon.

Dad_Scaper · #**7898** February 21st, 2023, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Took a look at the OP...we're closing in on 3 years since the submissions of Masha, Rujin and Shadow Wraith.

Now, I know there are reasons for that - having had conversations with some of you privately - but if I'm being honest, would love to see increased commitment and focus from the judges to get these "old timer" designs decided on.

Not trying to offend. I know many of you wear multiple "hats"...life gets in the way, priorities shift...I get it. That said, seems a bit unfair that with so many "active" judges...we can't see a resolution after so long.

I respect you all, and appreciate your hard work here...just trying to give a friendly nudge.

I am sure that the judges don't mind this honest and respectful post, Sir H..

Scytale · #**7899** February 24th, 2023, 06:09 PM

Nordlung by @Sherman Davies

Icarian dragons come in lots of different forms and sizes. And intelligences? Or maybe most of them prefer to stick to "the old ways" instead of borrowing tech from allies.

Balance

Nordlung is an all-in-one package. Long-range attack, mid-range multi-attack, and strong melee attack combined with very good movement and decent survivability. He's difficult to really compare with as there's not a lot units with so much range and mobility, and those that do don't have such good close-range options. Moltenclaw is a fairly decent comparison with a potentially long-range special attack. (I'd compare with Zelrig, but an explosion attack is more disruptive for positioning than Moltenclaw's remote line.) The D&D red dragon has a tad more "Lifense" (Life x Defense) but a bit less movement. Hard to tell with any certainty because of the special attack differences, but their similar costs feel about right.

Theme

Nordlung is white dragon from Icaria with a big gun. A weaker Ice Shards is a natural addition, and a Soulborg-reminiscent special attack for the big gun is appropriate. Nothing called out for the big axe on his back, but it is very easy to go to far with "designing to the mini" so I like the design as-is with a good melee attack. So yeah, he's an Icarian white dragon with a Soulborg gun.

Creativity

Nothing groundbreaking here, and that's all well and good. What's impressive here is how the unit carves out its own unique feel on the battlefield with somewhat obvious powers. Making something new out of the familiar is an achievement.

Playability

Some of the other dragons work decently as cautious snipers, but not nearly as well as Nordlung. An Attack 4 Range 8 special attack is really dang good. Run-and-gun isn't a great strategy alongside Greenscales as they lose their bonus for Lizard King proximity, but they can still serve as a fighting screen. Even better, get the crew on a hill and take long-range shots and draw the enemy in close, where the Greenscales can get height attacks while Nordlung rains down ice.

It makes Nordlung frustrating to play against, but rewarding to finally pin down. He darts around sniping at long range, and if you do corner him he cracks out the multi-attack or a sizeable melee attack. But 4 Defense doesn't block everything, and at 4 Life he can't risk too many leaving engagement attacks. Once he's pinned down he usually falls to some focused attacks.

So while Nordlung has some great strengths, he didn't feel overpowered. Range 8, Attack 4 special attack on a flier is nuts, but it's still only a single attack. Ice Shards is decent but not amazing, and Attack 5 isn't upper-echilon for melee attacks. Sure, he could be the best run-and-gun unit in the game in cleanup, but 165 is too many points to reserve for cleanup.

But then there's the text on Omnicron Pulse Rifle Special Attack. It's limited in use to a single (but frequently-used) species, and it feels more like an addition to bring out the Soulborgy-ness of the weapon special attack than anything strategic for the design. Which would be fine, if it wasn't so darn oppressive. Losing turns sucks and is the opposite of fun, which is why modern games avoid such mechanics. Heroscape has some order marker removal mechanics, but not a lot, and generally pretty limited. When going against Nordlung with a soulborg-heavy army like Blasts/Glads, there's nothing you can do. There's no mitigation, no way to play around it other than put your 'X' with your other order markers and hope Nordlung hits that one. It's on the gun that Nordlung prefers to use all the time anyway, so there's little decision-making there, and with the absolutely massive threat range he can shoot anything he wants. In that matchup the Soulborg player loses 1/4th of their order markers, and that's all there is to it. It isn't fun or interesting for either player.

Summary

There's a lot to like with Nordlung. The flying sniper dragon feel different than existing units, and didn't feel miserable to face off against, usually. Except when playing Soulborgs against him, in which case it was just unfun, even if it didn't guarantee a Nordlung win. The power text of Omnicron Pulse Rifle feels tacked-on, and just kills the enjoyment when it actually matters.

I vote Nay to induct Nordlung into the SoV.

Scytale · #**7900** February 24th, 2023, 06:16 PM

Nordlung by @Sherman Davies has received two Nay votes to induct (Vydar_XLIII and Scytale) and is removed from the process.

Sherman Davies · #**7901** February 25th, 2023, 08:22 AM

Thanks for the consideration, guys. I'll try and retool Nordlung using the feedback given, run a few games, and see about resubmitting him down the road.

superfrog · #**7902** February 28th, 2023, 12:15 AM

Rujin by @Sir Heroscape

I'll keep this review shorter than normal because it's fairly straightforward.

Rujin is a very workable bonder for the Durgeth Ravagers. Due to his lack of movement restrictions and his high life, he adds a bit of flexibility that Uzog and Pel do not have.

The abilities all work together nicely to create a swamp monster vibe, although the Thick Skin ability sometimes strikes me as a bit odd since it could also be framed as a negative (3D, -1 against specials), and usually you just think of Rujin as 3D (at least I did in testing).

Rujin does not fundamentally address the Ravagers' biggest issues as a build which is the unreliability of the hero activation and the low survivability. And Rujin is only really super worthwhile on a swamp map. But both of those are okay, bad factions can still get fleshed out, and terrain-dependent units exist. An attack of 4 is pretty good anyway, so it's not like he's worthless outside of swamp.

I appreciate that this version of Rujin is not oppressive against low-attack armies. 2 attack can get through him if you give it enough time, although it's still slow.

Overall, Rujin is a tight thematic package, hits the right notes on the battlefield, isn't broken in corner cases, and fleshes out a build that can feel a little one-note at times.

to induct.

---------

Also,

to review the remaining Aldorn faction cards.

wriggz · #**7903** March 7th, 2023, 08:24 PM

I vote yes to review both F19 and the Aldorn factions

Scytale · #**7904** March 8th, 2023, 05:30 PM

Master Aldorn, Visages of Aldorn, and Lady Aldorn have all received 5 Yea votes to review (Scytale, Vydar_XLIII, Dysole, wriggz, and superfrog (also here)) and move forward in the process.

Blue Trails · #**7905** April 8th, 2023, 10:47 PM

After numerous playtesting games and years as a functional and similar home custom, I'd like to submit my own Annunhounds to SoV consideration.

Bio (Unofficial): When a shroud of night and fog falls over the mountains of Feylund and its twin moons shine fully over the trees, silence breaks as the dreadful howls of the Annunhounds fill the air. These spectral beasts dash over rock, plain, and hill in tireless pursuit of wicked souls, following their quarry to the ends of the world. Even if escape seems possible, the relief of the hunted lasts mere seconds before the clever pack calls their master to the hunt.

Card Text:

Spoiler Alert!

Balance:
7 Move and 4 Defense give the Annunhounds a good chance against many ranged units, although tougher squads like the 10th Reg. give them trouble, as do multi-special-attackers that can exceed their attack output each turn. Moreover, while respectable against frailer ranged units, two attacks of 3 aren't going to beat massed, competent melee units any time soon. The hounds aren't supposed to tear through an opponent's army, though; their role is to tie down high-value targets for their Hunter Heroes, establish stronger board presence for a Hunter-heavy army, and act as an emergency screen, if necessary; and they have enough survivability and mobility to succeed in their task.

Theme:
The Annunhounds are directly adapted from the Cŵn Annwn, beasts from the Germanic Wild Hunt mythos. The Wild Hunt, itself, is a suitable match for Heroscape's themes and for a Feylundian unit, as it exists in various European cultures folklore—including Norse mythology; although it is a D&D unit, the Master of the Hunt provides precedent for this notion.

The Cŵn Annwn are the spectral hunting hounds featured in the Welsh version of the Wild Hunt tales, serving both to usher the newly deceased to the afterlife and to pursue and torment the wicked souls they encounter. The Species of "Spirit," chosen on suggestion from Scytale, conveys this idea nicely: the Annunhounds aren't quite Undead, but they're still immaterial beings closely involved with the dead. Moreover, while they bear resemblance to Europe's prolific hell hounds, the Cŵn Annwn hold the unique cosmetic distinction of pure white coats and red ears, due to the colors' significance in Welsh folklore: white is associated with the supernatural, while red is associated with death. This makes the translucent white sculpts chosen especially appropriate. The ears can be fixed with a dab of paint, if desired, but such a minor inconsistency isn't really worth the worry.

As a bonding "support" unit for the Hunter class, the Annunhounds try to emulate the concept of game hunting with dogs. This is reflected in Quarry Chasing's targeting limitation. The swift Annunhounds run ahead and locate prey for their huntmasters. When you choose to release the hounds, you consciously restrict your targets to those flushed out or trapped by the beasts, but your hunt is more likely to succeed.

Creativity and Playability:
There's nothing revolutionary about Hunter bonding, especially as others have attempted similar concepts in the past, and actual hounds acting as the vessel for such a role don't take a genius to depict, either. However, the Annunhounds aim to unite these concepts into a coherent whole. Their powers are similarly simple yet effective: Quarry Coursing is a straightforward conditional bonding variant, while Phantom Walk is ubiquitous and easily understood. As for army building, drafting the Annunhounds alongside two of Arktos, van Nessing, and Himmelskrale is always an attractive option, but other Hunter Heroes can work as well; Dund, in particular, becomes more threatening when able to use his Crippling Gaze without the commitment of an Order Marker. The worst bonding target I encountered during testing was the Feral Troll, but it still appreciated the Annunhounds' ability to impede swarming squaddies.

Sculpts & Availability
This could be the unit's most formidable obstacle. The sculpts are Pathfinder Deep Cuts Hell Hounds and come in packs of two figures. They were readily available both when I first made the unit and when I checked last year, but they appear to have dwindled since then. I'll enclose the full list of sources in spoiler tags, but suffice to say that the current supply is represented by the unlisted amount carried by Paizo themselves as well as at least 85 other packs found across the Internet.

Retailers

Spoiler Alert!

Acknowledgements:
Special credit and thanks go to Leaf_It; while tuning this design I learned that he had previously submitted a unit to the SoV using the same sculpts, but he graciously gave me permission to move forward with the Annunhounds.

Thank you for your consideration.

Scytale · #**7906** April 11th, 2023, 02:13 PM

That availability is ... not good. Ones and twosies scattered across many sites is not good availability in general, but for a Common unit it's especially bad. Moreso for a cheap potential bread-and-butter type squad this appears to be.

Scytale · #**7907** April 11th, 2023, 06:00 PM

Master Aldorn, the Visages of Aldorn, and Lady Aldorn have all passed United Fanscape Review and move forward in the process.

Shadowking · #**7908** April 11th, 2023, 06:24 PM

OK, after some additional input from the Discord, the simplification of Jan's powers in terms of wordiness/complexity down to their distilled essence, and Kafnirra's small shift in theme & General and other minor cleanup, *and* some additional playtesting just to confirm the tweaks, I would like to officially submit both of these heroes (as two seperate submissions).

Jan Sobieski

Spoiler Alert!

Kafnirra

Spoiler Alert!