Do they suck? Or could they be good?

[Wytefang]

I'd love to know what 3 HS units you think just stink (not because they don't ever work for you but because within the context of the game and other units, they just don't seem very good to you).

But then, I'd ask you to list a scenario or army build for each of those units that might make each of those units a lot better or at least somewhat useful. OR provide a link to a thread here that discussing how to make these units better or how to better use them in battle. For me it's probably these three units:

1. Dund - http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=10568 - Best thread about how to use him.

2. Zettian Guards - Another great article here - http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=12517
I think that they could be more useful (as mentioned in the article in conjunction with the Warden 816 and DW9K but I'd also think they could do well matched with Taelord, to beef up their natural attack #'s).

3. Sacred Band - Other than building them into an army with Marcus and/or Parmenio, I'm not sure what else you can really do to make these suckers worthwhile. They just seem like poor copies of other common melee armies with a boring theme, to boot.

[Chimpy]

I like Clarissimus' strategy for Dund the best.

[Wytefang]

Cool, and would you like to add your 3 units and thoughts here?

[Einar Gen.]

1. Grok Riders. Definitely NOT the best unit in the game, granted, but I do think they're underestimated. My cousin,(10 years old) isn't the best strategist, but he has a knack for using potentially "bad" units to decimate enemies. The Groks are one of his favorites, and he has multiple strategies with them. To save time, however, I'll post one of his best ones:
Place Zettians a short distance from the Groks. As your opponent moves in to attack, move the Zettians steadily bakcwards, until they're very close to your Groks. Then, rush the enemy with a Warlord and Groks. Usually, the enemy is close enough together that the warlord ends up engaged with several figures, and the Groks go CRAZY!! Simple, but works almost every time.

2. Gorillinators. On even footing, most enemies will kill these guys. Keep them well hidden and get them to height, however, and they can take care of pretty much any melee squad and most ranged squads. Definitely underestimated.

3. Anubian Wolves. I have used these guys at gaming conventions, and I believe these are a VERY underestimated squad, particuarly with Khosumet. Mainly, I lock my opponent down with deathreavers, then have my wolves attack the engaged figures. Good with Deathreavers and a tough hero.

[warmonger321]

I love the G-nators. I do think they are over priced by 15 points, But sometimes they do really good.

I had 2 squads of them and nakitas my oponent had samuri archers and omnicron snipers, and maybe each of us had a few others, but they are irrelevant at this point.
My G-nators had no hight accept for two and he was trying to kill them with samurie archers, but my tough ability combined with nakitas smoke made them unhitable. The only way he killed some of my G-nators was by using his omnicrom snipers when my smoke powder wouldn't work.

[GreenLanturn]

I'm not going to mention figures that have already been said or that I don't have, so I'm sorry Dund (whom I have and has been mentioned).

1. Warriors of Ashra - These ladies have a great defensive ability, but they move to slow to matter, and their defense of 3 won't hold up to the commonly used ranged squads (4th Mass., Stingers... etc). Scenario: Get the glyph of Valda and you are good to go!

Army:
Theracus
WoA x3
Arkmer
Sonlen
Syvarris
500 points, 14 spaces.
Use Theracus to carry people around like a WoA into engagement, or Syvarris up high.

2. Deathwalker 8000 - I'd gladly trade 3 defense dice for 2 life... (I mention 8k and not 7k or 9k because he has a great special attack). Scenario: Get him a melee screen fast!

3. The Einar Imperium - Just bad when I look at them... 140 points for 3 figures that die fast? Not to mention their complimentary hero doesn't do much. Scenario: I think a map with many ruin-like walls or LoS blockers around would benefit the surprise factor these guys need to do well.

[Flavius Maximus]

Fyorlag Spiders -small squad that only bonds with one hero. Unlikely and difficult to set up special ability, I would give these guys an abilty to move more than just three a turn. But I suppose with an abundance of shrubbery (TJ X4) they might work well as a melee screen; like the rats with bonding.

Gurei Oni the poor lug has one of the most ground-breaking powers in the game, and he can't survive long enough to use it properly. My best suggestion: charge him down from the hills with Raelin or a defense glyph, and make those ranged squads quiver in fear!

Dzu-Teh these guys have almost the same stats as the NoTNW, but comon and cheap. Their only problem: they don't play well enough out of snow and ice to validate their use. I can't see any way to make these guys competetive.

And GL, would you really spend two entire order markers to bring one squad figure to the battle?

[gorthan313]

1: Moriko. You all saw this coming, right? Moriko's main problem in my view is her relatively low survivability for her high cost. Solution? Draft Thorgrim, Eldgrim, and maybe Finn to increase Moriko's stats to Move 7, Attack 5, and Defense 5. That doesn't leave you with a lot of points for other units in a 500 point army!


Moriko 110
Thorgrim 190
Finn 270
Eldgrim 300
KMA 400
Syvarris 500

Moriko provides a special attack, and Syv and the Krav provide ranged support.


2: Hatamoto Taro. Yeah, I said it. Mostly, he stinks. BUT, get him in the right army in the right situation, and he can help your samurai counterstrike his impressive cost of 130 point back! My advice on this unit: Use him in conjunction with Raelin 1. I'm probably going to break this guy out again once the Dwarves and Capuans arrive on the scene.....


3: The Drudge. These guys are underrated IMO. Even on a non-swamp map, they can really frustrate your opponent, as they can sneak in and target support units. Throw in some swamp water, and these guys get really good!

[Altron_ZERO]

I love almost all figures, because I'm good at figuring at strategies for certain figures to work with ones people wouldn't expect. Though there are some that I've found that just don't work well with anyone.

Charos- Though he may be strong, one unit cannot stand alone, a squad of omicron snipers+Taelord can easily take out Charos. The only thing I can really think of is using Acorlah and/or Eldgrim to give Charos some more move so he can get into battle real quick and put to use his counter strike against your oponent. Then follow up Railen behind them, and to finish it off, drop in the AE once Charos is surrounded and pick off your opponent's figures.

Q9- I know this is alot of peoples favorites, but I never liked the fact of having only one guy doing 3 attacks, I'd prefer to use a squad so I could maneuver around my enemy. Almost everytime someone played Q9 against me, I always take him down very easily. Either using a squad of romans to surround him, or using sgt Drake to kill him in one good roll. In order to fix this, you can base your army entirely upon soulborgs, or somthing else that can stop armys efectivley in their tracks. Then using the nakitas and railen surround Q9 with them making him virtually untouchable. The problem with this is you wont be able to move very well, and most of your attacks will be made with Q9, who doesnt do that much damage.

For the third figure I'm stuck between Moriko and the Armoc vipers. Moriko has useful abilities but her defense and health really don't stand up to the 110 points. She is too easily killed by ranged units and once you get her close enough she doesnt last past one or two turns. The Armoc vipers have good stats for their points and are good shock troops, though their 2 abilities arent useful enough for the points. slither is almost pointles because once you go in the water you need to spend extra movement points to get out, and most maps don't have enough water to become a bothersome. The bonding isnt bad, but if you're to draft the armoc vipers, then to create an army that works you will have to base everything around the Venoc warlord, which is a good figure, but doesn't create a very effective army.

[Melwing17]

Originally Posted by Flavius Maximus

Fyorlag Spiders -small squad that only bonds with one hero. Unlikely and difficult to set up special ability, I would give these guys an abilty to move more than just three a turn. But I suppose with an abundance of shrubbery (TJ X4) they might work well as a melee screen; like the rats with bonding.

That is exactly how I use the spiders. As a screen. At 40 points a pop they're worth it for that- plus they really do sometimes do well at taking enemies down (like Thanos .. yeah, seriously)

[Wytefang]

Quick thought on Altron's comments about Charos - with any big hitter (Dragons or whatever), I don't rush them out first at all. That's just asking to get your big guns killed right away. I save him for the end. Seems to work really well and barring an initial disaster at the beginning of the game (requiring my big guns to come out and play), it makes these guys way more effective.

[Altron_ZERO]

Originally Posted by Wytefang

Quick thought on Altron's comments about Charos - with any big hitter (Dragons or whatever), I don't rush them out first at all. That's just asking to get your big guns killed right away. I save him for the end. Seems to work really well and barring an initial disaster at the beginning of the game (requiring my big guns to come out and play), it makes these guys way more effective.

Always try to do what your opponent least expects. It may be dumb, but it could catch them off guard. Also, you shouldn't be afraid to charge charos in, yes he may be taken down fast, but if you have a good army waiting behind him, it can really screw up what your opponent was gonna do.