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  #37  
Old December 1st, 2008, 11:19 PM
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Re: The Book of Gorillinators

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Shackle View Post
That said, there are units that have a nightmare of a time disposing of the 'Nators, particularly any unit with 2 attack or less and no SA.
In a world where most units throw 2 attack dice, the Gorillinators hold up just fine. They're likely to hit slightly harder than their fellow 2-attack squads: the 2 dice on a figure with 7 move and movement bonding is going to turn into 3 dice from height sooner than that same 2 dice on a figure with a flat 5 move. As for survivability? For a 2-die attack, the chance of punching through 1 defense and Tough is equal to the chance of punching through between 5 and 6 standard defense dice. And to cap it off, once the Gorillinators do get height, an attack of 3 will beat a defense of 3 almost as often as 2 doubled dice. That's right: to an Aubrien or Marro Warrior, a Gorillinator looks disturbingly close to a ranged Minion. By those standards, that 90 points isn't bad at all. They can jump up onto height faster than an Omnicron or even a Microcorp agent and then rain down death from behind that shield of Smoke Powder.

Once the G-nators make the transition to a world of tournament-worthy multiple-attackers who are never going to throw less than 3 attack dice, it's a different story. Going from 2 normal-attack dice to 3 will more than double your chance to kill a Gorillinator with each shot.

Non-draining Stingers will go almost exactly kill-for-kill with G-nators on the level. You could argue that the monkeys will still get height, but then the 120 points they're spending on Nakitas will buy six additional Stingers for the other side. For the price of three Nakitas and six Gorillinators, you can load up on 15 mighty Stingers!

Q9's Queglix gun will kill around two Gorillinators per turn, more if they can't get height reliably. Acid Breath is about the same. Ice Shards are even worse. A Gorillinator, on height, next to a Nakita Agent, gets absolutely nothing to protect himself from Zelrig.

It's fun at first to play such speedy ranged figures, but I'm thinking I should trade mine away. They are just unusable.
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  #38  
Old December 3rd, 2008, 03:35 AM
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Re: The Book of Gorillinators

Ehh... i like them. They work well for me. Put them with the girls in white and they rock. a couple squads is best.
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  #39  
Old December 3rd, 2008, 03:49 AM
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Re: The Book of Gorillinators

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Originally Posted by rdhight View Post
And to cap it off, once the Gorillinators do get height, an attack of 3 will beat a defense of 3 almost as often as 2 doubled dice.
Hmm? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying on this one. How many attack/defense dice are involved?

(Except, perhaps, for the instance where I ask for clarification above...)
Statistically, what rdhight is saying is validated by Sisyphus' work and shown graphically in the Heroscape Magic Number thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight View Post
It's fun at first to play such speedy ranged figures, but I'm thinking I should trade mine away. They are just unusable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternaldream View Post
The Gorillanators are one of the units that I desperately want to like... but can't. I love the models and everything, but... they just don't perform well. It's a shame...
My opinion on the Gorillinators is that they are great units (with great sculpts/theme), but only so in a drafting situation when you can come up with a clear answer to the opponent's special attackers. For instance, the following army won in a 2-on-1 game (500 points for each player i.e. my 500 points vs. their 1000 points):

Raelin - 80
Laglor - 110
Krav - 100
Nakitas - 120
Gorillinators - 90

I deviated from the common wisdom (pardon the pun) and only used one squad of Gorillinators. Admittedly, for 90 points 2x Deathreavers and Isamu might have been a better investment than the Gorillinators in terms of a meat shield (I didn't have the Roborats at the time). However, the Gorillinators performed admirably. Gaining and holding height was crucial on the (symmetrical, non-castle) map that we played, and the Gorillinators provided early engagement to offset the opponents' first wave advances while the Nakitas advanced/climbed/attacked and Raelin moved into position. From this vantage point, order markers were loaded onto the Krav who could outmaneuver opposing figures with the help of spending the odd order marker on the Nakitas for defensive repositioning of the surviving G'Nators and their own attacks. Laglor died like a chump at the outset of the game, so aside from taking some shots in the face he didn't factor into the gameplay.

My opponents' armies included the AE, Kaemon Awa, Q10, and the Marro Stingers among some other lesser troops (*cough* Zettian Gaurds *cough*). In selecting my army, I reasoned that the Krav backed by Raelin would be required to handle those major threats with special attacks while the G'Nators would be effective in other matchups. The G'Nators in Raelin's aura had remarkable defensive ability against normal attacks (as the stats would predict) and were often the only productive targets my opponents could shoot at given the effects of Smoke Powder (which triggered often) and Stealth Dodge. Like I said, I won the 2-on-1, but it came down to a too-close-for-comfort Raelin (me) vs. Guilty McCreech final showdown.

If you'll entertain another anecdote before I weigh in with my final verdict, then read this paragraph. If not, then skip down below. The Nakitas at full squad strength have fantatastic offensive firepower. Forget smoke powder. You don't need it when you can take height with your own Nakitas while simultaneously sending one or two Gorillinators into engagement with the enemy each turn (this only works well against armies without disengage fyi). The strategy I describe is one where you win by attrition. You must cycle your G'Nators from your start zone to the front line with movement bonding while making sure that the opponent is denied height. From height advantage, the Nakitas will be rolling 4A three times. The Gorillinators, through movement bonding, function the same way that Roborats do, by preventing/limiting the opponent's offensive capability through engagement. Engagement, in this case, is both a measure for denying the opponent height advantage and preventing your order-marker-dominant-Nakitas from coming under fire. In this scenario, you can expect to lose Gorillinators quickly (I've beaten an army of Krav, Q10, Kaemon Awa, MWs, and Raelin with this strategy). The only way and only reason this strategy can work is if you limit, as much as possible, the opportunities your opponent has to target the Nakitas. This is because you are relying very heavily on this squad having not only full squad-member firepower but also height advantage to inflict damage on the opponent at a rate faster than they can achieve (you should always be throwing 3A or 4A 3x, whereas they will be suffering lost attack firepower as you target units with order markers). When playing with this style, I have often ended my games so that a full squad of Nakitas were the only only units I had left at the end. As such, the Gorillinators perform as little more than glorified Roborats with incredible defensive weaknesses to special attacks, no order markers wasted for repositioning, and more versatility as attacking end-game figures. To be honest, I don't like the G'Nators for their base stats (especially their offensive firepower, which is lacking IMO) as much as I do for their movement bonding with the powerful Nakita Agent ranged squad. Furthermore, I've never used the G'Nators on their own, and I wouldn't consider doing so without either the massive range advantage conferred by Laglor or the movement bonding of the Nakitas.

My verdict on the G'Nators is that they can be tons of fun in drafting play, but I would probably never take them to a tournament unless the metagame seriously discouraged the use of special attacks somehow.

e.g.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
Capture Raelin Tournament - GenCon 2008:
Army = Cyprien, Nakita, 2xGorillas (450 pts)
Lost to Cornpuff; win over Hendal
Results 3-1
As it stands, metagame threats like Q9, Braxas, Zelrig, and Nilfheim seem make to make winning a standard tournament with the G'Nators nigh impossible.

Last edited by mccombju; December 3rd, 2008 at 03:58 AM.
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  #40  
Old December 3rd, 2008, 04:18 AM
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Re: The Book of Gorillinators

Quote:
Originally Posted by mccombju View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight View Post
And to cap it off, once the Gorillinators do get height, an attack of 3 will beat a defense of 3 almost as often as 2 doubled dice.
Hmm? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying on this one. How many attack/defense dice are involved?
Like you said, it's from Sisyphus' tables.

If you're a 3-defense squad figure, the 3 attack dice of a Gorillinator on height kill you 50.9% of the time. The 2 doubled dice of a Minion of Utgar kill you 62% of the time. With a normal attack of 2, you'll kill a Gorillinator 16.7% of the time and a minion 13.2% of the time. I'm making the point that through the eyes of that class of squad figures, like TSA, Aubriens, Marro Warriors, etc., a Gorillinator's attack and defense probabilities are worryingly close to that of a minion with 6 range. Not bad at all considering six Minions are 220 and six Gorillinators are 180.
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  #41  
Old December 3rd, 2008, 05:14 AM
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Re: The Book of Gorillinators

Ok. That makes perfect sense. I just didn't understand that from your original post. I think "2 doubled dice" threw me off.
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  #42  
Old December 3rd, 2008, 02:20 PM
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Exclamation Re: The Book of Gorillinators

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Originally Posted by Topher View Post
Well, that was fast.

I didn't think there was any such rule because I have read all the rule books several times; in fact, I have never really had any rule questions before because between reading the rule books and reading the cards you should be able to figure it out. Everything is pretty clear if you have a little sense at all. This however made me wonder a bit... well to be honest it made my brother wonder because he had the Gorillinators and I had Spider-Man. He was none to pleased with having no hope for defense.
I have a problem with this. The wording on the card says "when defense dice are rolled," not if defense dice are rolled. This just tells you when in the turn to apply the bonus. Then it says add 1 sheild to whatever is rolled. If you don't roll any defense dice, you roll 0 sheilds and then add the 1 automatic sheild to it. So the gorillinators would still get their auto sheild even though they don't roll any defense dice. The auto sheild is not dependent on whethert or not defense dice are rolled, rather you add it automatically when (not if) defense dice are rolled...

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  #43  
Old December 3rd, 2008, 02:46 PM
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Re: The Book of Gorillinators

It's a moot point because Tough doesn't work against Spidey's Web Special Attack anyway.

Oh, and Topher's question was from back in March.
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  #44  
Old December 3rd, 2008, 04:09 PM
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Re: The Book of Gorillinators

No, I'm argueing that tough does work against Spidey's web attack! Not a moot point.

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  #45  
Old December 3rd, 2008, 04:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Gorillinators

Spidey's Web attack is a Special Attack - Tough only works on Normal attacks.

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  #46  
Old December 3rd, 2008, 04:29 PM
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Re: The Book of Gorillinators

Quote:
Originally Posted by The B.I.V. View Post
No, I'm argueing that tough does work against Spidey's web attack! Not a moot point.

Brandon
If you want to argue, then you need to use MeBurqSa's Paralyzing Stare for your argument. (since it is not a special attack)

We established a couple of years ago that a succesful Paralyzing Stare negates Tough, but feel free to argue about it.

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Last edited by R˙chean; December 3rd, 2008 at 04:33 PM. Reason: I love that my Capture Raelin army was referenced as the exeption to tournament 'nators
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  #47  
Old December 3rd, 2008, 04:33 PM
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Re: The Book of Gorillinators

Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The B.I.V. View Post
No, I'm argueing that tough does work against Spidey's web attack! Not a moot point.

Brandon
If you want to argue, then you need to use MeBurqSa's Paralyzing Stare for your argument. (since it is not a special attack)

We established a couple of years ago that a succesful Paralyzing Stare negates Tough but, feel free to argue about it.
Ha! Throwing oil on the fire!

~Aldin, who says they lose tough since they aren't rolling any defensive dice

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  #48  
Old December 3rd, 2008, 04:37 PM
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Re: The Book of Gorillinators

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
Spidey's Web attack is a Special Attack - Tough only works on Normal attacks.
Doh! I forgot web was a special! I lose...

Brandon, who still disagrees with Aldin's logic (or lack thereof) on this subject...

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