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  #13  
Old June 22nd, 2017, 09:42 AM
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Re: The Soulscape Project- Converting the Dark Souls game to

Current Iteration of Army Cards:

Boreal Outrider Knight
Spoiler Alert!


Dancer of the Boreal Valley
Spoiler Alert!


Titanite Demon
Spoiler Alert!



Some Ideas (Brainstorm) for the Other Units:

Silver Knight Swordsman
Spoiler Alert!


Silver Knight Archer
Spoiler Alert!

Something interesting I realized after making the Aggressive Advance power is that if you place some SKSwordsmen near the edge of your SKArcher knockback zone, you can use the Swordsmen to push figures that succeed the check back out of it so that they have to roll again to get back in

If the current iteration goes through, the Silver Knights might become one of the more solid defensive combos (albeit a little expensive). Which is fitting when you consider their role in the first and third Dark Souls.

Royal Sentinel
Spoiler Alert!
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  #14  
Old June 22nd, 2017, 02:58 PM
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Re: The Soulscape Project- Converting the Dark Souls game to

Thoughts on uncommon vs. unique
I guess the reason I favored unique is because I didn't want to design units in such a way that would encourage needing to get a second set since the focus is getting one. However uncommon is fine I think since none of them have anything thats actually particularly alluring to taking multiples.

Demon vs. Golem
Idk, it seems too weird and clunky to me to have a unit named demon in its name that isn't a demon. I'm not sure I see the conflict but that could be shortsightedness on my part.

Silver Knights
As I mentioned in the previous post I'm not sure what to call them. Giant seems wrong just due to their size, but they certainly aren't human. Demigod is the best so far I can think of. Open to ideas. As for the bonding wording we could probably just say common knight hero if we want them to stay knights. Open to ideas there too.

I was thinking a shorter range on the GB vigilance. Not averse to the arrows being anti dragon and possibly human.

Sentinels
Unique squad or Uncommon hero is what I had been thinking, I wouldn't go with common hero. Uncommon hero would be sturdier but unique squad would more encompass the idea of them both guarding a gate, or in this case probably a cheerleader or ranged pod. With the point you made regarding them being a unique paid in the game, unique squad does make some sense. Slightly leaning towards unique squad but open to thoughts.

I love your idea of cowards reward on them since it encompasses how people will try and run past them to get to the boss but occasionally get smacked. Not as sure on wrath of gods, not because I think its bad but just since its less obvious in one direction or another.

[DELETED]There are also some cosmetic things that obviously need to be fixed but that can wait until the final stages of unit approval:

One thing I'm pondering about the player characters estus mechanic, is if it should be a ONE time use, or they should get multiple weaker uses, say 5 mini potion of healings that only heal one but that you could only use one of per turn. Multiple would more fit the game, and also mean if you were getting absolutely destroyed they'd be less effective at bouncing you back. The obvious benefit and tradeoff would be that it gives you more overall healing.

Last edited by chaoserver; September 18th, 2017 at 07:19 AM.
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  #15  
Old June 23rd, 2017, 04:44 AM
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Re: The Soulscape Project- Converting the Dark Souls game to

Nice, very nice.

Some fine tunings:

Ornstein
Spoiler Alert!


Smough
Maybe his Defense should be 4, since in-game Smough has lower resistances than Ornstein, but more health. This should also put them on par point-wise and enhance the feeling that they are distinct, but at the same time equals where power is concerned. As Soul of Ornstein it is right now, Ornstein's Soul will get him up to 5 Defense anyway.

Alternative Special Attack
Spoiler Alert!


Another thought is that Ornstein's bonus to Smough should be just be +1 Attack (he gains Ornstein's lightning) and Smough's bonus to Ornstein should just be attacking all adjacents (he gains Smough's slam). This is closer to how it works in the game and I think it would also be more elegant.
Spoiler Alert!


Dancer
Maybe her species should be Giant, since that's what she actually is aside from developing a beast-like posture and disposition. This would resolve the awkwardness of Pontiff Beast and be closer to the source material.

Her SA needs the leaving engagement clause amended:
The Dancer will not take any leaving engagement attacks when making this movement.

Outrider
Like the Dancer, maybe species should be Giant.

Frostbite Weapon needs our updated wording:

Start the game with 3 teal Frostbite Markers. If this Boreal Outrider Knight inflicts a wound on a Unique Hero, you may place a Frostbite Marker on that Unique Hero's Amy Card. Subtract 1 from the move and defense numbers on an Army Card for each Frostbite Marker on that card. A maximum of 3 Frostbite Markers can be placed on any card.

Titanite
I definitely like him better as Valkrill.

The range of his Lightning Bolt should be reduced to 7 in response to his increased Move of 3. This keeps the Special Attack threat range at 10 so that only ranged boosted units can kite him when he's on flat terrain.

3 Attack may be too strong against squads, but his ranged attack should still be a considerable threat. We will have to see in playtesting. Maybe an attack of 2 increased by 1 against Uniques would solve that problem if it ever arrises, but for now let's roll with 3.

This should be closer to what I envisioned for Vault:

Before moving, choose a figure within 7 clear sight spaces of this Titanite Demon. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, place this Titanite Demon on an empty space adjacent to the chosen figure. This Titanite Demon may not move more than 25 levels up or down in a single Vault. If this Titanite Demon is engaged when it Vaults, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks. This Titanite Demon can only attack the chosen figure this turn.

It gives the other player some breathing room for when the Titanite Demon actually jumps on one of their figures and so that it doesn't immediately lay waste to every squadie around it.


Rough Drafts:

SK Swordsman
Spoiler Alert!


SK Archer
Spoiler Alert!


Sentinel (as a Unique Squad)
Spoiler Alert!



If we do an Estus special power, it could go something like this. I will use Knight of Astora for the hero's name an example. Assume the heroes have somewhere between 4 and 6 Life:

Estus Flasks
Start the game with X orange Estus Markers on this card. Instead of moving and attacking with Knight of Astora, you may remove 1 Estus Marker and up to 2 wound markers from this card. This power cannot be used if there are no Estus Markers on this card.
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  #16  
Old June 23rd, 2017, 08:05 AM
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Re: The Soulscape Project- Converting the Dark Souls game to

I will draw up some fixed cards. I like the direction mostly everything is headed, with the exception of calling the dancer etc. giants. I really do like Pontiff beast, boreal beast or some take on beast. The solution may just be using photoshop to insert text that fits.

O/S
I'm open to the change on O/S buffs as its a bit of a more interesting as well as powerful. We don't want TOO much power in the buff after all, as otherwise that has to be incorporated more into the point costs and would take away from them being viable solo heroes which I very much want them to be.

With the decision of the SK's being demigods, one likely albeit slightly unfortunate direction I think we should go in is making O/S Demigods as well. The only loss is Smough not bonding with the dreadguls which I had kind of liked since I could totally see it, but isn't needed. Despite his huge appearance, Smough himself is about ornsteins size beneath the armor. And considering there are actual giants in the dark souls lore, including ones getting minis in the future the change makes even more sense(another reason I like the boreal crew being beasts of some type).

Titanite Demon
I like how he's panning out, what you envisioned is exactly what I had wanted, with the vault in the game resulting in a single very focused attack. One thing to consider is- Should he really not suffer leaving attacks from vaults? Could be more interesting, and indeed balanced if he did. Not saying its the right answer per se though.

SK's
Interesting stuff. Lets work in this direction for now. Especially for the knight swordsmen they don't have the strongest feel in game, so I am certainly open to other takes on them.

Sentinels
I like the direction they are headed. Will draw up a card for them.

Flasks
Interesting. Its a pretty huge nerf to the ability to be able to not be able to move or attack. Perhaps they can move but not attack?
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  #17  
Old June 23rd, 2017, 09:57 AM
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Re: The Soulscape Project- Converting the Dark Souls game to

O/S
Demigod sounds fine, especially considering other incoming figures that are actually called giants in the game series.

Titanite Demon
Good point. He should take leavings when Vaulting, since he is essentially just moving to attack another figure. Do we want Ornstein to get the same treatment, or can nobody catch the Flash?

SK's
I see what you mean about their strength in game. One should be easily manageable for a 100ish point hero. Two should be a challenge, but still somewhat manageable with a foreseeable risk of dying. Three should be risky and unadvisable. Also remember they have 1 Life, so there's a measure of unreliability there. One insufficient defense roll and they're gone. They should at least hold up for a bit, though. I feel like they might be weaker than they look on paper, but I guess we can find out later.

Flasks
Agreed. "Instead of attacking" should work better. The ole' run and chug.
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  #18  
Old June 23rd, 2017, 02:47 PM
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Re: The Soulscape Project- Converting the Dark Souls game to

Ornstein can probably get away with not taking leavings but thats what play testing will be for. With TD's ostensible weakness being that he's slow, it just seemed off rewarding him in a way for moving so far.

With SK's what I meant more is that their ability suite isn't as fleshed out and interesting as dancer, O/S etc. meaning with them I am open to messing around with both our ideas and anyone elses until we hit the sweet spot.

Glad we agree on flasks. Run and chug indeed On the note of the PC classes, I am starting to feel the most appropriate take on them is for none of them to have bonding potential to recreate the feel of them in the game as being fairly isolated. While the knight being a champion and the warrior being wild would be intriguing I think its best avoided.
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  #19  
Old June 25th, 2017, 02:24 AM
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Re: The Soulscape Project- Converting the Dark Souls game to

For the SKArchers, we could maybe shift the knockback to being a d20 effect of their normal attack. I like knockback zone we have right now, but since we are still in ideation I thought I would throw this idea out that I've had since the beginning. The more ideas we have to play with the better, I say.


More Brainstorm:

Hollow Soldier
-Hollow or Undead, Common Hero, Soldier
-5 move
-3 attack
-2 defense
-15 points
-Common Hollow Bonding
-Deadly Strike (with only 1 attack dice)

Hollow Crossbowman
Hollow or Undead, Common Hero, Crossbowman
-5 move
-6 range
-1 attack
-1 defense
-15 points
-Common Hollow Bonding
-Wait Then Fire (to emulate them standing still when loading and firing their crossbows)

Large Hollow Soldier or Hollow Axeman
-Hollow/Undead, Uncommon Hero, Soldier, Relentless, Large 6
-3 Life
-4 move
-4 attack
-2 defense
-25 points
-Leaping Assault: If this Hollow Axeman is unengaged after moving, it may move 2 additional spaces. When counting spaces for this additional movement, ignore elevations. This Axeman may leap over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and leap over obstacles such as ruins. This Axeman may not leap more than 3 levels up or down in a single leap. This Axeman must be able to move adjacent to an opponent’s figure in order to use Leaping Assault. (On top of being an adaptation of their jump attack, it also reflects their style of moving around slowly, but then suddenly striking. Not sure how I feel about it, however. A first glance it looks like a mini version of TD's Vault, but the fact that you move first and don't roll a dice gives it a completely different feel: the Kozuke Samurai's Charging Assault with a leaping component. Like with the Kozuke, you need to be mindful of where you position your figures or suffer a surprise attack.)
-Lumbering Strike: When attacking with this Large Hollow Soldier, all excess shields rolled by the defending figure count as unblockable hits inflicted by the defending figure on this Large Hollow Soldier. (Simulates their heavy attacks that leave them very vulnerable, especially when attacking figures with high defense or Combat Agility (blocking or rolling). It also allows us to frontload their power while keeping their cost low.)

For the melee Hollows, it would be interesting if they had a power that simulated their unsteady and sporadic nature. Frenzy doesn't fit them thematically, imo. Something else. Maybe Lumbering Strike is what I'm looking for, and could work on the regular Hollow Soldier as well.


Brainstorm for the Cursed Undead

An Idea for Incorporating the Darksign
Spoiler Alert!


Knight of Astora
-Jandar
-Hollow, Knight or Champion, Unique Hero, Disciplined
-4 life
-4 move
-3 attack
-4 defense
-A Coward's Reward
-One Shield Defense

Warrior of ______
-Einar
-Hollow, Warrior, Unique Hero, Wild
-5 life
-5 move
-4 attack
-3 defense
-Berserker Charge (sprint)
-Counterstrike (parry)

Herald of ______
-Jandar
-Hollow, Unique Hero, Herald, Devout
-4 life
-5 move
-3 attack
-3 defense
-Lightning Spear Special Attack: Range 5. Attack 2 + Special. +1 attack vs. Dragons and Titanite Demons
OR
-Heal Aid (small self-healing power)
-Reach (would work well in other combat systems, but in Heroscape many characters have longer spears while the Fen Hydra is the only unit with Reach. If the Herald had a greatspear then I would be more inclined)

Assassin of Carim
-Vydar
-Hollow, Unique Hero, Assassin, Tricky
-3 life
-5 move
-4 attack
-3 defense
-Sneak Attack 2 (backstab)
-Combat Agility (rolling)
-Disengage or a version of Combat Agility that lets him move one space without taking leavings

I think we should aim within 100 to 120 points for each, which would include the estus or darksign.
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  #20  
Old June 25th, 2017, 03:52 PM
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Re: The Soulscape Project- Converting the Dark Souls game to

On the subject of the PCs I don't want them to be too complex, I think Estus is the best way to tether them to the game without getting too crazy wordy and leaving space for other abilities to differentiate them from one another. I'm all ears to ideas as we develop and possible iterations of the cards but my goal is for people who look at one of these cards to be "oh! that makes sense" both in terms of how they play and how they are translated from the game. Just food for thought.

For parry etc. I think we could invent similar but different versions of the abilities.

Will look over your ideas more thoroughly and post fixed cards in not too long.
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  #21  
Old June 25th, 2017, 07:55 PM
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Re: The Soulscape Project- Converting the Dark Souls game to

Irrelevant- See later posts

Last edited by chaoserver; June 27th, 2017 at 01:18 AM.
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  #22  
Old June 26th, 2017, 04:51 AM
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Re: The Soulscape Project- Converting the Dark Souls game to

Make sure the special power titles are all caps.

In the last sentence for Blade Dance SA, you can just refer to her as "the Dancer" instead of her full title.

I assume the last two are O/S.

Once we reach finalization, I (or someone more skilled) can edit the cards in GIMP to make them look nicer.



The Darksign won't be crazy wordy. It won't even be that wordy or complex compared to Estus Flasks. It sounded complex when I first explained it because I included some of the deeper gameplay implications on how it would play out and how it would feel. Mechanically it is very simple.

Estus Flasks
Start the game with X orange Estus Markers on this card. Instead of attacking with Knight of Astora, you may remove 1 Estus Marker and up to 2 wound markers from this card. This power cannot be used if there are no Estus Markers on this card or if Knight of Astora is engaged to an opponent's figure.

The Darksign
When Knight of Astora destroys an opponent's Unique Hero, place a black Humanity Marker on this card. The Humanity Marker changes this card's species to Human. If there is a Humanity Marker on this card when Knight of Astora is destroyed, place him in his starting zone and remove all Markers from this card.

They're both three sentences long. We're talking a difference of less than three words here.

Imho, although the Estus mechanic is one of many staples of the game series, in HS all it would do is artificially extend the length of the game without creating any interesting or fun gameplay. It's the equivalent to leaving a fight to use a 2 wound Potion of Healing treasure glyph, except you can do this multiple times during a fight. I'm not 100% against it, but I think it's a bit dull, uninspired, and we could do better. Remember that Estus Flasks are just the game's health potion system, made less generic through smart design. When adapting a video game character to HS we have very limited space to work with, so should we give them health potions, or things that better reflect their core identity? I could be completely wrong about how it plays out in HS, however, and it might work out just fine, but right now I believe it's very weak design. If we are still unsure which direction to take, this is one of the areas where playtesting will be the most valuable.

Even if the Darksign, as it is right now, ends up sucking (which I doubt it will), we can come up with something better for the player characters.
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  #23  
Old June 26th, 2017, 03:22 PM
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Re: The Soulscape Project- Converting the Dark Souls game to

Yeah, don't mind the pictures for now, photo bucket was being wonky so I just let it sit for a day and will check now.

The darksign is just too niche for me to want to go with it over the estus. What I mean is vs. commons of which it is very likely the units encounter its a useful ability, and yet because of how strong the ability to respawn in cases where it does come up would be, it would have to be worked into the points.

While an anti hero ability makes sense on a unit there is only one of in the boreal outrider for example, whatever we install on these 4 units will be used for the future releases as well. And in the case of boreal, his ability is useful before a hero dies whereas they are only useful when one does and they are delivering the blow.

Its a cool idea to be sure, but I am worried about consigning these PC's and all future ones to an awkward and niche spot.

Estus in the form we have now or similar to it is always potentially useful across the board and can provide interesting decisions. I think saying it being an artificial extension of the game isn't fair. Yes its not overly interesting but a healing mechanic isn't by default an artificial extension in this case any more than it is in the many other cases its present in HS.

I truly am not solidified on what I want the PC's to be, but a simple estus mechanic and some class related abilities would work. If we could work in a darksign too I'm not opposed, I just get worried about one that involves re spawning and is so niche being incorporated on all PC's now and going forward, hope you understand where I'm coming from.

PC Note
A member of my playgroup had a good idea that we use in game items for the names of different abilities that a particular PC would have would be named after items in the game. Hornet Ring giving you a chance for a critical, red tear stone ring giving a buff when below a certain HP ETC.
A lot of the abilities would be familiar to similar to classic scape ability but maybe with a twist, like a ring on the assassin would give disengage essential but without taking fall damage etc.

Another idea to make estus more interesting is to only allow you to move OR attack, and perhaps have them heal only 1 and have 3-5 charges.

Winged Knight Ideas playgroup had
A special attack of 3 with a range of 4 that you must d20 roll to determine the number of targets.

Additional options
+1 Attack vs. large and huge
reach

Last edited by chaoserver; June 27th, 2017 at 01:44 AM.
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  #24  
Old June 27th, 2017, 01:58 AM
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Re: The Soulscape Project- Converting the Dark Souls game to

I see what you mean about the darksign being a lot of power for a specific situation, and therefore consigning them to a niche status, when our goal should be to make solid and versatile heroes.

We could draft up a version where you roll the d20 when you kill any figure, with a higher chance of getting humanity if you kill a unique hero, but it would be slightly wordier and allow us to only have one other power if we want to keep things nice and neat (which in itself is a pretty good thing and might end up being the case anyway).


More Ideas for the Player Characters:

Herald
Since we're probably going to have a life recovery mechanism for the player characters, having Heal Aid at the same time would be redundant. I like the idea of Lightning Spear on the Herald, since the only other faith class (Cleric) would probably get a healing or other supportive miracle, but I don't want players to only fight with the Herald from range. Possible solutions:
  • Increase normal attack to 4 while keeping LSSA at 2 attack
  • Bump up LSSA's base attack to 3 but with a chance of consuming an estus charge (using the already built in estus system as an ammunition system, interpreted as consuming ashen estus flasks)
Consuming Estus Charges Example:
Spoiler Alert!



Assassin
Another thought is to have both Defensive Agility and Counterstrike, but then he might get too strong with defense dice boosts. Alternatively, we could make a power that compounds the ideas of rolling and backstabbing into one.


The idea of using in-game items as powers is very interesting and will give us more options for designing them, as well as make the player characters more unique with powers that don't just reflect their martial capabilities (as is the case with most units in Hersocape).


Winged Knight
I like the idea of a special attack with randomly variable amount of targets. It reminds me of the Anubian Wolves and the Marrden Hounds (speaking of who, actually remind of the undead dogs in lower undead burg and foot of the high wall. We could use them for cool diorama shots of the pc's).

I don't remember much about the blue winged knight in particular, but I remember the three golden ones at the end of Lothric Castle that can fly/hover and actually incorporate this ability into their attacks.

Last edited by Apotheox; June 27th, 2017 at 04:23 AM.
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