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  #3877  
Old November 16th, 2019, 05:09 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I'd say the doppleganger concept is interesting but is confusing. As a figure does it have stats? If not then it has no real effect on the game until you roll his I'm Over Here ability. Even then all that power does is move Cade wherever the doppleganger is. Basically Isamu but not as useful because in theory all an opponent has to do is sit next to this invisible illusion and attack him when he switches. Sure you might switch back over and over but the illusion by the wording can never move and switch only allows him to move where it is. Oh and they'd never take leaving engagement since it's not a "move".

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  #3878  
Old November 16th, 2019, 05:57 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
I'd say the doppleganger concept is interesting but is confusing. As a figure does it have stats? If not then it has no real effect on the game until you roll his I'm Over Here ability. Even then all that power does is move Cade wherever the doppleganger is. Basically Isamu but not as useful because in theory all an opponent has to do is sit next to this invisible illusion and attack him when he switches. Sure you might switch back over and over but the illusion by the wording can never move and switch only allows him to move where it is. Oh and they'd never take leaving engagement since it's not a "move".
"Before taking a turn with Sabe you may place Sabe's Doppelganger within 5 spaces of Sabe" So he does move and no opponent's figures can't just sit next to him. It does impact the game because the Doppelganger can be used to benefit Sabe's Sneak attack 2 and can be used to lock down an opponent figure. The leaving engagement is just to clarify to power. The card does not say the Doppelganger can attack so he can't.
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  #3879  
Old November 16th, 2019, 06:00 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
As-is I'd say this is too custom-y for making heroscape canon. Otherwise looks like a fun "home brewed unit"
I don't agree. It is just a unique mechanism that hasn't been done before.
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  #3880  
Old November 16th, 2019, 07:45 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
As-is I'd say this is too custom-y for making heroscape canon. Otherwise looks like a fun "home brewed unit"
I don't agree. It is just a unique mechanism that hasn't been done before.
I agree and disagree. I don't think the idea's too customy, but it needs a lot more clarification and workshopping into a properly understandable form. I don't fully get what it's meant to do right now, but I think I like the idea!
Might work better if the simulacrum was something like a 5 Point figure with its own card and some basic clarifying text, even if it's statless/not meant to make LEAs/etc.


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  #3881  
Old November 16th, 2019, 07:59 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
As-is I'd say this is too custom-y for making heroscape canon. Otherwise looks like a fun "home brewed unit"
I don't agree. It is just a unique mechanism that hasn't been done before.
I agree and disagree. I don't think the idea's too customy, but it needs a lot more clarification and work shopping into a properly understandable form. I don't fully get what it's meant to do right now, but I think I like the idea!
Might work better if the simulacrum was something like a 5 Point figure with its own card and some basic clarifying text, even if it's statless/not meant to make LEAs/etc.
Agreed. The concept is good, but the Doppleganger needs a card, and it's stats need to be layed out. Even if it's cost is 0 (which you probably shouldn't do, make it 5 or 10 or whatever, but give it a cost. I would anticipate push back if it didn't have a cost.) you should define it, and state it's abilities. Say that it can't make LEAs, that it has 0 stats, that you can't place an order market on it, that it doesn't start on the board, that it can't be attacked, whatever it's needs to be, but define it.

Also, if the Doppleganger gives him a bonus with sneak attack, why would you ever not do that? He only attacks once, so there's literally almost never a reason not to give yourself Sneak Attack. You should just buff the stats to 5 attack, because you're never not going to have 5 attack, because there will almost never be a reason that you wouldn't put the Doppleganger right next to whoever you want to attack. It looks like the only reason the Doppelganger even exists, is to give that Sneak Attack buff. It would be much more interesting if there was a reason that you wouldn't want to put the Doppleganger right next to your target. Let the thing make LEAs so you can use it to tie figures up. Give it a reason to exist besides just guaranteeing Sneak attack.
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  #3882  
Old November 16th, 2019, 08:25 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
NAME=ARGUS CRYSTALSPLITTER
GENERAL = AQUILLA
PLANET = TORIL
SPECIES = DWARF
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = WIZARD
PERSONALITY = PRECISE
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 4

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 4
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 80

SHARD SHATTER SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack Special.
Choose a figure to attack. Roll 4 attack dice against the chosen figure. If the defending figure receives at least 1 wound, all adjacent figures to the chosen figure are also affected by Shard Shatter Special Attack. Then roll 2 attack die for all adjacent figures next to the chosen figure. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

MYSTIC SHIELD
When rolling defense dice against a special attack, Argus Crystalsplitter and adjacent Dwarf figures you control roll an additional defense dice.
Shard Shatter Special Attack feels like the wording could be improved to me, mostly just because this bolded section might cause confusion with which part of the SA the secondary figures are affected by. Changing it to something along the lines of Samuel Brown or Deltacron's Special Attacks that target multiple figures with different amounts of dice could improve the clarity here.

Mystic Shield adding a defense die to Argus and any adjacent dwarves feels a little meta-gamey to me. Dwarves generally aren't known for being very tied to magic in a lot of tropes, so this dwarven wizard being able to increase their protection against spells and whatnot feels a little thematically at end with my classic perception of a dwarf. It's not something that I couldn't get over, but I thought it was worth mentioning why it doesn't feel super thematic to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
I think that the concept has promise, but like others have said, the design needs some changes to fit the VC and classic styles. My main suggestion was going to be to create a card for the Doppelgänger--it quickly gets very confusing with what it is supposed to be in classic terms otherwise--but other people seem to have already covered that. We have precedent of some cards being literally undraftable without another (Iskra and her Retchets), so I could see a two card pairing for Cade and his look-alike here.

I also agree with the concern that Leaf_It expressed over how he essentially just gives himself Sneak Attack. You could fix this by changing the Doppelgänger teleportation ability to a more straightforward movement bonding (so that it requires more careful play to take advantage of Sneak Attack), though.

Mechanically, a figure that can literally never be destroyed sets off lots of warning bells. That could be very powerful in clean-up, with Cade placing his Doppelgänger in front of any remaining opponents, running away, and forcing them to take a leaving engagement attack until they die. That would be a very unfun situation to go up against, to say nothing of the potential for permanently blocking off chokepoints or just standing behind the Fortress Door to just stop it from opening for the rest of the game and more.
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  #3883  
Old November 16th, 2019, 09:54 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I've been thinking about putting this guy through the SoV.


He uses the Fire Giant Dreadnought from the Monster Menagerie 3 set from the D&D miniature line. As a guard he also bonds with the Crypt Guardians and with his large shields he's able to do some line of sight blocking just due to their sheer size. His trampling charge is similar to Tor-Kul-Na's Trample Stomp, though being able to move the figure makes them play very differently (as well as Uvaak not having as strong synergy). The movement caused by trampling charge can do a lot of neat tricks such as targeting down a hero and pushing them away with good rolls, and breaking up placement or pushing figures off glyphs and then taking them. Also he can push figures into lava (though with smart placement this can be hard to do if Uvaak needs to roll to many times or take several leaving engagement attacks).
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  #3884  
Old November 16th, 2019, 10:34 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
NAME=ARGUS CRYSTALSPLITTER
GENERAL = AQUILLA
PLANET = TORIL
SPECIES = DWARF
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = WIZARD
PERSONALITY = PRECISE
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 4

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 4
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 80

SHARD SHATTER SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack Special.
Choose a figure to attack. Roll 4 attack dice against the chosen figure. If the defending figure receives at least 1 wound, all adjacent figures to the chosen figure are also affected by Shard Shatter Special Attack. Then roll 2 attack die for all adjacent figures next to the chosen figure. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

MYSTIC SHIELD
When rolling defense dice against a special attack, Argus Crystalsplitter and adjacent Dwarf figures you control roll an additional defense dice.
Shard Shatter Special Attack feels like the wording could be improved to me, mostly just because this bolded section might cause confusion with which part of the SA the secondary figures are affected by. Changing it to something along the lines of Samuel Brown or Deltacron's Special Attacks that target multiple figures with different amounts of dice could improve the clarity here.

Mystic Shield adding a defense die to Argus and any adjacent dwarves feels a little meta-gamey to me. Dwarves generally aren't known for being very tied to magic in a lot of tropes, so this dwarven wizard being able to increase their protection against spells and whatnot feels a little thematically at end with my classic perception of a dwarf. It's not something that I couldn't get over, but I thought it was worth mentioning why it doesn't feel super thematic to me.
Thanks for the input. I'm not wording wizard on Heroscape powers and appreciate any assistance in editing it all to be more akin to proper powers in the game.

While I agree dwarf wizards are less common they do exist which is why I thought it'd be something interesting to add to the game. Mystic Shield particularly is more of an idea based of 5E D&D Shield spell: "An invisible barrier of magical force appears and protects you. Until the start of your next turn, you have a +5 bonus to AC, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from magic missile." I kind of felt that dwarves really don't need the defense bonus but against specials might help some. It's pretty minor in play, only gets used when facing big nasties and makes dwarves huddle which is typically the opposite of what you want when a dragon breathes on your dudes.

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  #3885  
Old November 16th, 2019, 10:48 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

TT, are there denial or placement issues at the base of that mini?

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  #3886  
Old November 16th, 2019, 11:13 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
TT, are there denial or placement issues at the base of that mini?
There are some without modification, but with a bit of super glue I was able to glue the shields together to make it like this:

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  #3887  
Old November 17th, 2019, 12:06 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I'm not really feeling Uvaak. Yes, his reduced Attack and different synergies than Tor-Kul-Na matter. And yes, it will play differently with the Trample change, but I'm not a fan of making a complicated power more complicated.
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  #3888  
Old November 17th, 2019, 10:17 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

That's a truly beautiful and unique mini. I hope you can make it work.


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