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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #13  
Old March 2nd, 2019, 08:42 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Swan (Design)

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Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
I could see that Ozy bonding driving her cost up. May want some CRB input.
Point range?
I doubt it - she's mostly providing bonding and Ozy's mostly good for his support powers (his combat abilities are pretty good, but pretty generic). He's not a bad choice, though, certainly.


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  #14  
Old March 2nd, 2019, 09:46 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Swan (Design)

It is more that you are providing a bonding option to one of the highest rated designs in C3G.
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  #15  
Old March 2nd, 2019, 10:22 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Swan (Design)

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Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
It is more that you are providing a bonding option to one of the highest rated designs in C3G.
Yeah, I know, but I feel it's important to know why he's so highly rated. It's not because of what he actually does on his turn, and, due to the Order Marker requirement of Smartest Man in The World, Black Order won't trigger too often (he needs two OMs - if one of those is an X, she's not bonding with him). It'll be a nice backup to give him an ally and a bonus activation in late game, but generally I can't see her giving that much to Ozymandias.


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  #16  
Old March 2nd, 2019, 10:29 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Swan (Design)

That is why we have the CRB.
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  #17  
Old March 2nd, 2019, 10:30 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Swan (Design)

I’m not too concerned about Ozymandius either. In my experience, Ozy likes the X, and here the bonding requires no unrevealed Order Markers. Absolutely needs to be tested, but I don’t think the current version will prove harmful.

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  #18  
Old March 2nd, 2019, 12:45 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Swan (Design)

Ozy reveals the X at the start of the turn though, so he won't have any unrevealed OM's once he reveals his numbered OM to take a turn. I'm with Lazy here though that giving him bonding won't be an issue. Since his range is 1 and he has Stealth Dodge, I've found you don't really want to engage and fight with him until late in the game. Stealth Dodge is too good to give up just for a single attack of 5, and you want to keep him alive for his OM stealing power. Then late in the game is when you will find it difficult to spread out the OM's evenly to avoid having an unrevealed OM on your card. Plus he can give you an OM from your opponent making that much harder to avoid having multiple unrevealed OM's on a card.
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  #19  
Old March 2nd, 2019, 12:54 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Swan (Design)

I'm not too worried about Ozy. If we were planning on putting out a Black Order member with Temporal Defense or some other kind of high-value OM burn power, then looping Ozy in could be a little dangerous. Don't think we have anything like that in mind, though.

The main thing Swan gives him is a way to activate someone else on your one numbered OM you have to give Ozy, though, and there are other ways to do that. I don't think Swan and Ozy is a lot more dangerous than, say, Avengers Iron Man and Ozy.

Open to thoughts from @dok @Dysole @Soundwarp SG-1
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  #20  
Old March 2nd, 2019, 01:03 PM
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Shaky Ground

dok has loved including Rover or Zombie in an Ozy army to give you an option that doesn't require you having to waste Ozy's OM doing nothing. Black Swan is much much much better than either of them. This feels dangerous to me. I think Tornado is right to be worried.

~Dysole, who thinks if her cost is kept in check it could make it less worth it but she's a definite upgrade from the other options you'd normally run
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  #21  
Old March 2nd, 2019, 01:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Swan (Design)

Black Swan bonding with Ozy for 1 turn more scary than Black Swan bonding with Doomsday for 1 turn (not that Doomsday is a great value pick, but he can throw down 7 dice when attacking and he wants to be on the front lines absorbing attacks)? The Black Order bonding is going to be a points driver with just the Thanos or Destroyer bonding options alone.
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  #22  
Old March 2nd, 2019, 02:07 PM
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Thought It Was a Natalie Portman Design At First

It's not that Ozymandias improves her. It's that she improves an army Ozymandias is in. As a classic scape example here, it's a bit like adding a valiant figure with a ranged special attack that can hit multiple figures. The figure pairs well with the 4th Mass, but the concerning part is that it now covers one of the bigger weaknesses of the 4th. I'd definitely want to hear dok's thoughts as he is much more experienced with Ozy than I am.

~Dysole, not saying it's broken, just that it's concerning enough to stop for a minute
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  #23  
Old March 2nd, 2019, 02:09 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Swan (Design)

Thinking out loud here, would adding a range restriction to the bonding solve the problem? Then Veidt couldn't just chill in his start-zone sipping champagne and petting his genetically altered lynx while she takes his turn for him.


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  #24  
Old March 2nd, 2019, 02:41 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Swan (Design)

Dysole is on point. I would pick Black Swan over Zombie/Rover, setting aside point cost. Both of them are great cheap additions, though, so if Black Swan is north of 200 points I don't think she's making the best Ozy builds better in general. That's the thing we're really trying to avoid here.

Range restriction would be somewhat effective, but Ozy takes his turn either way so it's not too significant. You could have Ozy stalk Black Swan on the edge of the fight.

How does The Black Order interact with Riddle Me This? Which goes first? I have visions of Riddler + Black Swan + Doomsday dancing in my head. (This is not a major competitive concern, just one of those funny things I'd like to try.)
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