The Book of Baron Mordo

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Thank you @All Your Pie - those are some really good tests. Looking at them and my own most recent one, I think that, from now on, I'm going to have Mordo at 270, Mesmerise at 15, Hypnotise at 25 and make the following change to Hypnotic Control:

Hypnotic Control

After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Baron Mordo, you may choose a Hero with the Hypnotized personality. Take temporary control of that Hero and immediately take a turn with the chosen Hero. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before using Hypnotic Control. All Order Markers that were on the chosen Hero's card will stay on the card, and you may not take any additional turns with other figures you control.

That change should make the whole Hypnotise combo, while still very strong, a little bit weaker if you aren't getting that extra turn the turn you Hypnotise someone, and a bit more possible to work around. Would those tweaks to the points and Hypnotic Control assuage your concerns? What do the Heroes think of these changes?

I somehow missed this. I like the change to before, but for different reasons. I think it works better if you can use the hypnotized figure before you attack, as you can then choose to attack that figure once you are done. With the hypnotized turn taking place after you attack, you don't want to attack that figure and accidentally kill him before you can make use of the fact he is hypnotized.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Cool.

Looking at running some tests for the spells in the next few days. Better to run them with Mordo, or with other casters?

We've got enough results with other casters, I believe - I'm happy with the spells in general use. Most interested in Mordo right now.

Originally Posted by Yodaking

I somehow missed this. I like the change to before, but for different reasons. I think it works better if you can use the hypnotized figure before you attack, as you can then choose to attack that figure once you are done. With the hypnotized turn taking place after you attack, you don't want to attack that figure and accidentally kill him before you can make use of the fact he is hypnotized.

That is an excellent point - makes it more generally useful while nerfing the strength of the Hypnotise combo somewhat - plus, thematically I can see Mordo sending out his Hypnotised minions to fight before deigning to move in himself, for much the same reason that the HYDRA Agents bonding has them taking the turn first. Looks like that's definitely the right way to go for pretty much all reasons.

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I’m going to run one more test sheet for him, and after that I think I’ll probably propose a vote for Final Editing.

With Ronin just popping in to say he can run some tests here I'd let him run the last set and call for the votes if his tests go well. One important aspect of public play testing is getting the cards into different peoples hands as everyone has different tactics and such they like to use. If you are really itching to run some more spell casting themed tests, I should have Enchantress ready for public play testing soon. I think I can get the last test of the initial done on Sunday afternoon, then unless something odd pops up in that test I'll call for the vote.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

With Ronin just popping in to say he can run some tests here I'd let him run the last set and call for the votes if his tests go well. One important aspect of public play testing is getting the cards into different peoples hands as everyone has different tactics and such they like to use. If you are really itching to run some more spell casting themed tests, I should have Enchantress ready for public play testing soon. I think I can get the last test of the initial done on Sunday afternoon, then unless something odd pops up in that test I'll call for the vote.

That works for me - I'm definitely happy to get this guy done ASAP, as I have tonnes of spells I want to design and am going to try to do as many as I possibly can for the Magic Release. I should probably be able to help with Enchantress next week.

[Ronin]

I'll try and have a couple Mordo/spells games in soon, then. Should be up by Monday night.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Ronin

I'll try and have a couple Mordo/spells games in soon, then. Should be up by Monday night.

Thanks! Sounds great!

[Ronin]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Mordo @270, Mesmerize @15, Hypnotize @25 (aka the deluxe Mordo package with all options and accessories @ 310)

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Baron Mordo, Wong, Mesmerize, Hypnotize (400) vs Black Canary, Green Arrow (Ollie), Catgirl (400)

Spoiler Alert!

Wanted to run Mordo against someone he'd have a tough time with normally to see how much the spells helped. They definitely did help him stick around a while, but a lot of that had to do with crummy attack rolls from Team Arrow. That cut both ways, though, with Mordo's attacks being pitifully ineffectual.

It felt like the spells pretty solidly augment Mordo for sure. They shore up some of his natural weaknesses, but not enough to make him look broken or anything.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack/Dark Arts Empowerment): 0 wounds to Black Canary in 6 attacks, 1 wound to Catgirl in 1 attack
• Hypnotic Arts: Hypnotized Black Canary on Round 2, OM2. Redundantly Hypnotized her again on Round 3, OM1 (after casting Hypnotize on her)
• Hypnotic Control: took 4 turns with Black Canary. OHKO'd Green Arrow, dealt 3 wounds to Catgirl in 3 attacks (destroyed). Moved Black Canary to low ground sseveral times.
• Dark Arts Empowerment: not used, because Mordo took some damage up-front and didn't want to risk it
• Damage Taken/Magical Defense: 3 wounds from Black Canary in 8 attacks, 1 wound from Green Arrow in 1 attack

Hypnotize Summary: Used to nuke an OM 3 off Black Canary at the start of round 3 and Hypnotize her. Ended up Hypnotizing her on the next turn anyway, on a lucky whiff.

Mesmerize Summary: Used to subtract Black Canary's attack down to 2. Prevented her from multi-attacking, and got her Hypnotized.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Black Canary with 1 wound

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Baron Mordo, Hypnotize, Mesmerize, Jason Voorhees, Judge Fear, Wong, Wolverine (1000) vs Original X-Men (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Mordo manages to assassinate the heck out of Professor X with a spell-Hypnotized Iceman in this one, on a couple lucky attack rolls. Being able to take him down relatively early and hurt the X-Men's efficiency gives him a serious edge in mopping up some of the remaining Mutants. They take him down after a few turns, but Mordo's got Wolverine in reserve for clean-up, and he isn't much bothered by Jean Grey and Angel.

Iceman is the main guy going after Mordo, so Hypnotic Arts doesn't really get a chance to come up in this one.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 3 wounds to Beast in 1 attack, 1 wound to Cyclops in 1 attack (destroyed), 2 wounds to Angel in 1 attack, 3 wounds to Iceman in 4 attacks (destroyed)
• Damage Done (DAE Attacks at +3): 1 wound to Iceman in 1 attack (would have been 0, Face of Fear subtracted a shield)
• Hypnotic Arts: not used
• Hypnotic Control: took 2 turns with Iceman. Attacked Professor X twice. Rolled 4 skulls and got shut down by Psychic Defense X. Rolled 4 skulls again and dealt 4 wounds to Professor X for the kill.
• Magical Defense/Damage Taken: 1 wound from a leaving engagement attack, 2 wounds from Iceman in 5 special attacks, 1 wound from Dark Arts Empowerment in 1 roll, 1 wound from Jean Grey in 2 attacks (destroyed)

Hypnotize Summary: Used to Hypnotize Iceman Round 2, OM1.

Mesmerize Summary: Used to subtract from Jean Grey's attack. Didn't manage to get the Hypnotic Arts trigger he was looking for, on a crappy defense roll, but he did keep himself alive. He was down to 1 Life and likely would have died to a full attack of 4.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Wolverine unwounded, Jason with 2 wounds

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Mesmerize feels generally pretty strong, and helps cover one of the biggest weaknesses of spell-casters, though there are still ways around it in auto-wounds and special attacks. It's pretty much a must-draft with Mordo, and likely with any future MD units that have strong effects that trigger on defense.

Hypnotize can lead to some interesting decision-making in terms of "who is best to take OMs off of" vs "who is best to be able to take control of".

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Ronin

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Mordo @270, Mesmerize @15, Hypnotize @25 (aka the deluxe Mordo package with all options and accessories @ 310)

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Baron Mordo, Wong, Mesmerize, Hypnotize (400) vs Black Canary, Green Arrow (Ollie), Catgirl (400)

Spoiler Alert!

Wanted to run Mordo against someone he'd have a tough time with normally to see how much the spells helped. They definitely did help him stick around a while, but a lot of that had to do with crummy attack rolls from Team Arrow. That cut both ways, though, with Mordo's attacks being pitifully ineffectual.

It felt like the spells pretty solidly augment Mordo for sure. They shore up some of his natural weaknesses, but not enough to make him look broken or anything.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack/Dark Arts Empowerment): 0 wounds to Black Canary in 6 attacks, 1 wound to Catgirl in 1 attack
• Hypnotic Arts: Hypnotized Black Canary on Round 2, OM2. Redundantly Hypnotized her again on Round 3, OM1 (after casting Hypnotize on her)
• Hypnotic Control: took 4 turns with Black Canary. OHKO'd Green Arrow, dealt 3 wounds to Catgirl in 3 attacks (destroyed). Moved Black Canary to low ground sseveral times.
• Dark Arts Empowerment: not used, because Mordo took some damage up-front and didn't want to risk it
• Damage Taken/Magical Defense: 3 wounds from Black Canary in 8 attacks, 1 wound from Green Arrow in 1 attack

Hypnotize Summary: Used to nuke an OM 3 off Black Canary at the start of round 3 and Hypnotize her. Ended up Hypnotizing her on the next turn anyway, on a lucky whiff.

Mesmerize Summary: Used to subtract Black Canary's attack down to 2. Prevented her from multi-attacking, and got her Hypnotized.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Black Canary with 1 wound

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Baron Mordo, Hypnotize, Mesmerize, Jason Voorhees, Judge Fear, Wong, Wolverine (1000) vs Original X-Men (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Mordo manages to assassinate the heck out of Professor X with a spell-Hypnotized Iceman in this one, on a couple lucky attack rolls. Being able to take him down relatively early and hurt the X-Men's efficiency gives him a serious edge in mopping up some of the remaining Mutants. They take him down after a few turns, but Mordo's got Wolverine in reserve for clean-up, and he isn't much bothered by Jean Grey and Angel.

Iceman is the main guy going after Mordo, so Hypnotic Arts doesn't really get a chance to come up in this one.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 3 wounds to Beast in 1 attack, 1 wound to Cyclops in 1 attack (destroyed), 2 wounds to Angel in 1 attack, 3 wounds to Iceman in 4 attacks (destroyed)
• Damage Done (DAE Attacks at +3): 1 wound to Iceman in 1 attack (would have been 0, Face of Fear subtracted a shield)
• Hypnotic Arts: not used
• Hypnotic Control: took 2 turns with Iceman. Attacked Professor X twice. Rolled 4 skulls and got shut down by Psychic Defense X. Rolled 4 skulls again and dealt 4 wounds to Professor X for the kill.
• Magical Defense/Damage Taken: 1 wound from a leaving engagement attack, 2 wounds from Iceman in 5 special attacks, 1 wound from Dark Arts Empowerment in 1 roll, 1 wound from Jean Grey in 2 attacks (destroyed)

Hypnotize Summary: Used to Hypnotize Iceman Round 2, OM1.

Mesmerize Summary: Used to subtract from Jean Grey's attack. Didn't manage to get the Hypnotic Arts trigger he was looking for, on a crappy defense roll, but he did keep himself alive. He was down to 1 Life and likely would have died to a full attack of 4.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Wolverine unwounded, Jason with 2 wounds

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Mesmerize feels generally pretty strong, and helps cover one of the biggest weaknesses of spell-casters, though there are still ways around it in auto-wounds and special attacks. It's pretty much a must-draft with Mordo, and likely with any future MD units that have strong effects that trigger on defense.

Hypnotize can lead to some interesting decision-making in terms of "who is best to take OMs off of" vs "who is best to be able to take control of".

Looks excellent! Is there any breathing period for a proposal for Final Editing? Because as soon as that's up, that's what I'm proposing here.

[Ronin]

No, you can propose to go to Final Editing as soon as you're comfortable with where the unit is.

[Lazy Orang]

Okay, in that case, I Propose moving to Final Editing at 270!

@Tornado -
@johnny139 -
@Viegon -
@Yodaking -
@japes -
@TrollBrute -

[Yodaking]

I don't believe their is any official time restriction between when the last play test is posted to when a call for final editing is made but I could be wrong. I personally like to let the report sit for 24 hours to give everyone a chance to review the data and think on the results a bit before being asked to vote on anything. Sometimes a thought can come to you after some information marinates and I don't like having to put a vote on hold to address a new point of discussion.

With you actually running 3 different cards with 3 different point cost here, I would actually advise you call the vote on the two spells first and make sure you know what point level they will be passed at. I don't think any of the other heroes have really been participating much in the spells development and discussion since play testing has started so you should find out where they stand on the current points distribution. I think it is fairly safe to say the total package of Mordo + Mesmerize + Hypnotize is worth 310 as a group but who gets what portion of that cost could be in dispute. So find out what the spells are going to end up costing, then adjust Mordo up or down accordingly.

[Lazy Orang]

I've made an attempt to write up a bio for this guy. (It's in the OP.)