The Book of Master Splinter

[quozl]

Once per round, when either an Order Marker is removed from the card of a Ninja Turtle you control or when a Ninja Turtle you control is destroyed, you may place the removed Order Marker or any unrevealed Order Markers from that card on this card. When a Ninja Turtle you control is destroyed, for the rest of the round, when Splinter attacks, he may attack one additional time.

[Arkham]

You'd want this:

FATHER'S DEVOTION
Once per round, when a Ninja Turtle you control removes an Order Marker, place it on this card. If a Ninja Turtle you control is destroyed, you may place any unrevealed Order Markers from that card on this card and for the rest of the round, when Splinter attacks, he may attack one additional time.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Arkham

You'd want this:

Okay, - thanks guys. Really sorry about this, and sorry to be a pain - could we get another set with that change? (Still can't test until the Online App's fixed.)

[Arkham]

I don't think another set of Initials is necessary. His team already won both games, having another turn each round that he was alive, is only going to make those wins stronger. So I'd just bump his points up a bit and let the Public testing figure it out. Initials are merely to get an idea of where he falls, and make sure the design is playing well.

[Lazy Orang]

I've gone with quozl's wording here (I like that it theoretically allows some protection from opposing Order Marker removers as well as working with Leo (though not both at once) - fits in to a degree with the 'emotional balance' aesthetic we've established on Silk Spectre and Mantis).

[Arkham]

The reason I worded it how I did, is because it's shorter and simpler to understand. The way Quozl has it worded leaves the odd idea that when a Turtle you control is destroyed, it technically says you can place the removed Order Marker on Splinter's card, which doesn't make sense. Additionally, if an OM is removed from Leo's card, and Leo has 3 unrevealed Order Markers still on his card, Splinter can take them all.

Once per round, when either an Order Marker is removed from the card of a Ninja Turtle you control or when a Ninja Turtle you control is destroyed, you may place the removed Order Marker or any unrevealed Order Markers from that card on this card. When a Ninja Turtle you control is destroyed, for the rest of the round, when Splinter attacks, he may attack one additional time.

Seems straight to the point by splitting them, and as I said, makes the overall text shorter how I had it, which should always be the goal, especially if it makes the whole thing clearer. Whatever works though, as long as the wording gurus are good with it.

[Yodaking]

After reading both of them earlier today I also thought Arkham's was the better option due to clarity and simplicity.

[quozl]

I also agree that Arkham's wording is better.

[Lazy Orang]

How about this, then?

Once per round, when an Order Marker would be removed from the Army Card of a Ninja Turtle you control, you may place it on this card. If a Ninja Turtle you control is destroyed, you may place any unrevealed Order Markers from that card on this card and for the rest of the round, when Splinter attacks, he may attack one additional time.

[Arkham]

Now you're aiming for more than what was initially intended. When Mantis was rocking OM protection, you said:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I've got to say, Cosmic Grounding feels really underwhelming. Counterdraft protection from figures moving or removing Order Markers and a tiny D20 bonus if you're next to her? Feels fairly minor, weak and not that interesting to me. Is there a way we could make it more... interesting?

So I'm not sure why all of a sudden that's worth it. It makes the power a bit longer, but it is what it is. I don't really care either way.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Arkham

Now you're aiming for more than what was initially intended. When Mantis was rocking OM protection, you said:

So I'm not sure why all of a sudden that's worth it. It makes the power a bit longer, but it is what it is. I don't really care either way.

Actually... protecting OMs that way was in my initial vision for what this sort of power would do for Splinter. I said that for Mantis because it was all the power was doing - here, it's a small, thematic extra that fits naturally with what's there.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I said that for Mantis because it was all the power was doing

Power creep. Do you understand what that is?

Sage:

PROBABILITY CALCULATION
Whenever a figure you control within clear sight of Sage rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add or subtract 1 from the roll.

Leo:

NINJA FOCUS 1
When you roll the 20-sided die for a Ninja you control, you may add or subtract 1 from the roll.

Batman(Dick):

STRATEGIC DISCIPLINE
At the start of the round, before initiative is rolled, if one or more Order Markers are placed on this card, for the remainder of the round no unrevealed Order Markers on cards you control may be moved to any other cards.

Silk Spectre:

EMOTIONAL GROUNDING
At the start of the game, you may choose one other Unique or Event Hero you control. Once per round, if you control both Silk Spectre and the chosen Hero and an Order Marker would be removed from the chosen Hero's card, you may choose not to remove it.

What you just said was uninteresting, weak, and minor...is a power that prevents OM removal/movement and offers a d20 boost/subtraction to adjacent figures. That's not enough? That was 1 of her 3 powers. The other 2 being the more heavy lifting powers that define the card, with the one you are stating not being interesting enough, merely supplemental. Do you understand that not every power needs to be the game changer? Not every power needs to have 4 effects in 1?

Power Creep is when over time new designs begin to offer powers that are stronger, bigger, badder etc. than what came before. This packing so many individual abilities into a single power and labeling it "1 power", is absolutely going to kill some designs of old. The further you raise that bar, the bigger the gap becomes.

The powers I listed above are in-line with about half the roster, in the sense that they are simple one effect powers. Yet, those units aren't boring or uninteresting, because there's more to the design than just that 1 power. If we keep going down this road of "it needs more" and adding extra bits into everything, that is the very essence of Power Creep.

This:

Once per round, when an Order Marker would be removed from the Army Card of a Ninja Turtle you control, you may place it on this card. If a Ninja Turtle you control is destroyed, you may place any unrevealed Order Markers from that card on this card and for the rest of the round, when Splinter attacks, he may attack one additional time.

That's Emotional Grounding, Contingency Plan, and Double Attack all combined into one.

It's only a matter of time before that too, becomes not enough.

I don't say this all as if I haven't been guilty of this very thing in my designs at points, I'm easily one of the biggest offenders in some of my earlier designs, I say this because for you to state OM protection and a d20 modification isn't enough for a single power to be interesting, warrants an explanation and warning of why we hamper so hard on complexity and smashing 5 things into one power.