[Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace Investigator) - Compat. Testing

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

Caution noted (and test added to OP). Sounds like he can have very good matchups (like Arashara dumping Raelin into a pit of height advantaged attacks), but at the same time he has 2D and self-wounds. Sure he can get up to 35% chance of Mind Jack, he starts at 10% (15 with an initial Overclock) while a Mind Flayer is always at 20% by comparison. Given the long range on it, though, I could definitely see making it 20 on the d20 to start being the dial to turn.

It's true that he can have some amazing match-ups yet often won't, but high-variance HeroScape units like Sudema are typically priced on the higher end anyway (or units geared towards a specific scenario, like the Obsidian Guards, are priced under the assumption that they're drafted for that scenario). We obviously don't want him to be super overpriced, but I think that it's also important to not completely outclass the Mind Flayer here.

As it stands, I think that Tetsuo is pretty clearly superior to the MFM in normal gameplay. Short of a MFM-centric dungeon room with Cxurg'gyath, I'm not sure that I'd ever want the MFM over what Tetsuo currently offers. Decreasing the reliability of Mind Jack (currently, he gets the same odds as Enslave quite early on with just 2 wounds) a tad to let the MFM's consistent odds feel more noticeable would help to distinguish the two, and pushing Tetsuo into a different points bracket would also help the MFM retain his niche.

Alternatively, 5 range might be unnecessary now that Mind Jack is a free bonus rather than tied to his attack, but given that 4 range was a significant detriment earlier, I think that we should still experiment around with this range for the time being.

We don't have to make any immediate changes of course (I already have another game with the current iteration set up that I'm hoping to play within the week ), but I do think that it's worth noting how powerful he feels in comparison to the other turn-stealing units, with the only trade-off effectively being that he starts at 5% lower odds for a turn.

[Pumpkin_King]

I figured he'd outclass the MFM. Worth keeping an eye on.

[NecroBlade]

I haven't done much testing outside Ozuul and the Velnesh, yet, and I wasn't able to do any more this weekend. But hopefully if I can make space for some next weekend, I can start seeing Tetsuo and the other playtest designs firsthand myself.

[Astroking112]

This playtest wasn't very informative on Tetsuo himself because I kind of focused him down and my girlfriend didn't want to risk turns on him, but that in and of itself is useful. I think that his underperformance here is the result of these factors, but she didn't want to go all in on his risk.

VOLCARREN PARADISE by the Robber
No glyphs. Played with special healing waters scenario rules from the map instructions, but they never came into play.
Astro: Kinchо̄, Master Lao Xin, Master Win Chiu Woo, Yi Feng, Chen Tang (510 Points)
Dawn: Tetsuo Tyrell, Deathwalker 9000, Deathwalker 8000, Zettian Infantry x2 (510 Points)

Note: Kinchо̄ was a personal custom that can be found in this post. The only differences in this game were that he was 10 points cheaper and had no range limit on his Tanuki Trickery power. He was pretty powerful with the monks as it was, so I nerfed him after this game.

GAME SUMMARY:

• Kinchо̄ teleported adjacent to Tetsuo at the end of Round 1. He was right next to lava, but Dawn only activated Tetsuo one more time before Kinchо̄ eventually finished his slow assassination. While Kinchо̄ was slowly finishing off Tetsuo, he was blocking attacks and moving about the map, dancing in and out of range, to height, off of lava field, or next to bushes. This position was very strong for him, as Lao Xin could see him clearly from the starting zone. I never felt like it was necessary to trigger Tanuki Trickery again until after Tetsuo was dead, and by then it was too risky to place a lone OM on Kinchо̄.
• While this was going on, my monks skirmished with Deathwalker 9000 and the Zettian Infantry on the other side of the map. They managed to get lucky and kill 9000 early on.
• Once Kinchо̄ finally fell to Deathwalker 8000 and the Zettian Infantry, Dawn began focusing on the rest of my army. They were struggling to kill enough Zettians to keep up, but things were still looking positive as I had only lost Chen Tang and Kinchо̄. Then Deathwalker 8000 engaged Master Woo and killed him in one turn with his Rapid Fire Special Attack.
• After Woo fell, I fell back on Lao Xin and Yi Feng only. Deathwalker 8000 unfortunately Rapid Fired Lao Xin into submission in one turn just like he did to Master Woo. That paralyzed me for a round and let her finish off Yi Feng for the win.

SURVIVING UNITS:
Deathwalker 8000, 1x Zettian Infantry
~150 Points Left

POWER USAGE:
Tetsuo got three OMs (one in R1 where he moved in, one in R2 where he made an unboosted attack up at Kinchо̄, and one in R4 after he had died).
Overclock was never used, though it might have saved him from Kinchо̄.
Mind Jack was rolled for once, and got a 5/19.

THOUGHTS:
So, Tetsuo was kind of wasted in this game. Kinchо̄ straight up ambushed him after he got one OM (I viewed him as the biggest threat to my entirely-unique-hero-army on this lava map). He only got two Order Markers after that as Dawn spent much of the game trying to kill Kinchо̄—in the first one, he dealt 1 wound to Kinchо̄ (Dawn didn’t want to risk Overclocking or moving up onto lava field for level ground) and rolled a 5 for Mind Jack. The final Order Marker was a 3 in the round where Kinchо̄ finished him off.

I think that this is more representative of Kinchо̄’s strengths than any kind of weakness from Tetsuo. He very easily could’ve ruined my army at any moment with this set-up. I prioritized him heavily because of that, and Dawn didn’t want to use Overclock, which severely hampered his offensive potential. She also preferred taking additional turns with the Zettian Infantry and DW8k, which limited her ability to actually wound the Tanuki.

[flameslayer93]

Playtest: https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2416284&postcount=49


Thoughts from the game:

Tetsuo: I mean, I had stacked his card with Finn, so it should come as no surprise that he dealt 144 points of damage. However since a lot of those points came in the form of self damaging (and a viking spirit), they aren't as good. Not triggering Mindjack once did hurt me, but that just makes him really swingy. I can't say if upping his price will help him or not. Since I don't see any of the AotV stuff as being mega-destructive powerhouses that will scale his swing down quite a bit.

[Captain Stupendous]

Map: Bad Moon Rising
https://www.heroscapers.com/ohs/inde...QKkePNmr6cYY58

Army 1: Tetsuo, Me Burq Sa, 12th Caucasus x3, Nhah Scirh Cultists x2 (500)
Army 2: Sudema, Crypt Guardian x3 80 Tomb Skeletons x2 100 Drow Chainfighter x4 500

Version Tested

Spoiler Alert!

NAME Tetsuo Tyrell
Species Human
Unique Hero
Class Neuromancer
Personality Tricky
SIZE HEIGHT Medium 5

LIFE 6
MOVE 5 / BASIC 5
RANGE 5 / BASIC 5
ATTACK 3 / BASIC 4
DEFENSE 2 / BASIC 5

110 POINTS

OVERCLOCK
Before attacking with Tetsuo Tyrell, you may place a wound marker on this Army Card to add 2 to his Attack value.

MIND JACK 19
When revealing an Order Marker on Tetsuo Tyrell, after taking his turn, you may choose any opponent's Unique Hero figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Tetsuo. Roll the 20-sided die. Add 1 to your roll for each wound marker on this card. If you roll a 19 or higher, take temporary control of the chosen Hero and immediately take a turn with that Hero. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to its previous owner. All Order Markers that were on the figure's Army Card will stay on the Army Card.

Which units survived?

Army 2 was victorious with one Crypt Guardian with 2 wounds, 2 Drow Chainfighters, and 2 Tomb Skeletons

During the early game I advanced the cultists and the russians about equally, gaining control of key elevation in the center of the map. Shiftrex countered by advancing tomb skeletons. After Shiftrex advanced Sudema to stare of stone a cultist near the north, I was able to disengage three cultists who surrounded her and proceeded to kill her over the course of the next three turns. Tomb skeletons fell quickly to the combined forces of cultists and russians, however once the crypt guardians developed fully the Russians and cultists struggled to get past their 3 defense+tough. Gas grenades and attacks from height eventually killed two of the crypt guardians, but by that time the chainfighters had started to develop and my cultists were all but gone by then. I developed Tetsuo who was able to help finish off a crypt guardian and wound another, but he died to a chainfighter rolling 4 skulls. Me Burq Sa died shortly thereafter to another chainfighter before he was able to deal any damage.

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?

Tetsuo used overclock twice. Each time allowed him to deal a wound to a crypt guardian and punch through their tough, for a total of 2 wounds on crypt guardians. One of these attacks was very important, and allowed me to get a kill on a guardian who was engaged to a russian, which momentarily turned the tide in my favor. However, during the game we forgot that Mindjack could be used on Uncommon Heroes, so he never rolled for Mindjack even though he would have had a couple opportunities for it.

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?
Overall I really liked him. Six life and two defense goes fast, especially when you’re overclocking, but a potential of 5 attack at 5 range is a nice option for many armies. Sadly this test wasn’t as useful as it could have been due to my forgetting that uncommon heroes are affected by abilities targeting unique heroes, but I look forward to more playtests with him in the future.

[Captain Stupendous]

Map: Fossil

Army 1: Sentinels of Jandar x2, Tetsuo Tyrell, 12th Caucasus Rifles x3, Isamu
Army 2: 120 Crypt Guardian x2 140 Sudema 50 Drow Chainfighter x2 120 Blastatrons x2 90 Warden 816

Which units survived?

Crypt guardian with 1 life left, chainfighter, and Warden with 1 life left.

I started the game by advancing a small squadron of sentinels, and then consistently used the russians every turn for several turns. Russians destroyed blastatrons, but once the crypt guardians started advancing and were able to tie the russians down, the tide of battle slowly turned. Tetsuo killed off Sudema and hurt a couple crypt guardians, but was ultimately finished off by the mummies. At that point, the mummies and chainfighters were able to kill the last remaining sentinels, and Isamu failed his first vanish roll to give shiftrex the game.

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?

Five Mindjack attempts, 0 successful.

Dealt 2 wound to crypt guardian and 2 wounds to Sudema over the course of three overclocked attacks. Overclock fail on crypt

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?

Tetsuo was instrumental in killing off Sudema and punching through some of the guardians’ tough defenses, but other than that he didn’t feel supremely useful, especially considering that in order to accomplish all that he dealt 4 wounds to himself. He’s very fun to play, although I feel like perhaps Overclock is a bit of a trap currently? Hard to say. His base attack of 3 is so underwhelming, but inflicting a self wound feels like a high cost for +2 attack. Admittedly, I also don’t think this matchup was the best set of opponents to showcase Tetsuo. Even if he hadn’t failed all his mindjacks, a free turn with a single Crypt Guardian isn’t super impactful most of the time.

Stats

Spoiler Alert!

Shiftrex
Attack rolls: 49 out of 98 (50%)
Defense rolls: 19 out of 64 (29.69%)
Total dice rolled: 162
Time used: 0h, 20m, 6s

Luke
Attack rolls: 60 out of 122 (49.18%)
Defense rolls: 31 out of 109 (28.44%)
Total dice rolled: 231
Time used: 0h, 35m, 38s

Version Tested

Spoiler Alert!

VYDAR
NAME Tetsuo Tyrell
Species Human
Unique Hero
Class Neuromancer
Personality Tricky
SIZE HEIGHT Medium 5

LIFE 6
MOVE 5 / BASIC 5
RANGE 5 / BASIC 5
ATTACK 3 / BASIC 4
DEFENSE 2 / BASIC 5

110 POINTS

OVERCLOCK
Before attacking with Tetsuo Tyrell, you may place a wound marker on this Army Card to add 2 to his Attack value.

MIND JACK 19
When revealing an Order Marker on Tetsuo Tyrell, after taking his turn, you may choose any opponent's Unique Hero figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Tetsuo. Roll the 20-sided die. Add 1 to your roll for each wound marker on this card. If you roll a 19 or higher, take temporary control of the chosen Hero and immediately take a turn with that Hero. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to its previous owner. All Order Markers that were on the figure's Army Card will stay on the Army Card.

[Pumpkin_King]

Going to bring my suggestion back of just letting him have a renamed Enslave.

[NecroBlade]

I keep suggesting +Range and +Attack for Overclock to make it more valuable as a choice, but no one ever seems to like it...

[Pumpkin_King]

We could definitely try it! I don't think it'll help the issue I'm seeing in the PT reports, that Mindjack isn't really a factor.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

Going to bring my suggestion back of just letting him have a renamed Enslave.

I'm not convinced that this will make the power more likely to trigger? I think that Mind Jack is actually stronger than Enslave right now, since the main drawback (Tetsuo's glass jaw) is easier to mitigate with a screen thanks to the 5 range. Sticking it to a static 20% chance instead of a scaling 10-35% chance will help in the base case but reduce the differences between the two where Tetsuo can shine.

It's also worth noting that Tetsuo is already kind of a better Mind Flayer. Overclock is a very good power, and the +1 range and worse durability is definitely worth the extra 10 points and losing out on Psionic Blast. If we go to Enslave here, then I think that a price bump would be even more in order. These kinds of figures are naturally going to be bad competitively and underwhelm ~70% of the time when their powers fail to trigger, but we still need to price them accordingly.

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

I keep suggesting +Range and +Attack for Overclock to make it more valuable as a choice, but no one ever seems to like it...

I've found Overclock to be very valuable already. 5 attack at 5 range is no slouch, and it's generally even better when he has height. Of course, I also play Tetsuo very aggressively, Overclocking whenever it's reasonable to do so since it boosts pretty much every aspect of his design right now.

If we wanted to do this, then I could see reducing his base range back to 4 (coupled with Mind Jack's range, which makes him more comparable to the Mind Flayer) with a +1 range to his normal attack with Overclock. Going up to potentially 6 range feels excessive to me.

[Pumpkin_King]

Mmmmh. You're probably right. I retract my suggestion.