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  #61  
Old September 13th, 2018, 09:57 PM
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Re: The Book of Atlantean Palace Guards (Public PT)

I don't have a lot of time to break down data until Monday, but quickly looking through your game, try them at 170 and see how they fair.

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  #62  
Old September 13th, 2018, 10:21 PM
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Re: The Book of Atlantean Palace Guards (Public PT)

Ah, sorry, went ahead and finished my match while you were posting this. With 30 fewer points in the second match, I wouldn't have taken Aqualad (who didn't actually do anything).

It's possible that Atlanteans in general are just a big value play on water heavy maps.

Posting the second test now.

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  #63  
Old September 14th, 2018, 08:54 AM
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Re: The Book of Atlantean Palace Guards (Public PT)

They do come in strong as per these tests. I'd be okay with them getting higher in the point range. Atlanteans are strong as a species and we've got 4 of them together here. A 200 point Unique Squad doesn't bother me (though these guys might be irking toward 180).

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  #64  
Old September 14th, 2018, 08:58 AM
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Re: The Book of Atlantean Palace Guards (Public PT)

If I have a chance today or tomorrow, I'll run a third test with them at 170 points. I'll also pull back to about 10% water on my map instead of 20%.

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  #65  
Old September 15th, 2018, 05:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Atlantean Palace Guards (Public PT)

Yeah, if can run another that would be great, if not, no biggie. Either way, even though I haven't had a chance to really dig through data, I went ahead and bumped them 170 for future testing.

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  #66  
Old September 15th, 2018, 05:12 PM
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Re: The Book of Atlantean Palace Guards (Public PT)

Cool. My current plan is to try to run one at 170 points tonight.

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  #67  
Old September 15th, 2018, 09:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Atlantean Palace Guards (Public PT)

It's not going to happen tonight, apologies. I've figured out the armies and set a map back up that's only 10% water, but I'm dead tired this weekend for some reason, so I'm going to have to drop.

I'll hopefully find some time within the next few days to run it. I swapped Aqualad for Tempest and some spells for a 1,200 point match against the Fan Four + Iceman and Wasp (I).

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  #68  
Old September 15th, 2018, 10:28 PM
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Re: The Book of Atlantean Palace Guards (Public PT)

Nvm, got my second wind. I edited my earlier test post to add in a third test with the Palace Guards at 170. They fought dead even in a game in which I didn't even use my 20 point spell and they probably should've had the win. But as much as it felt fair, it's hard to credit the Guards too much as it was Tempest (who wasn't protected by them) and Aquaman (who came in after they fell) doing most of the heavy lifting!

So 170 is feeling A-OK to me.

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  #69  
Old October 8th, 2018, 09:19 AM
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Zettian Juggernaut Zettian Juggernaut is offline
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Re: The Book of Atlantean Palace Guards (Public PT)

From Ericth:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericth74
Here's my playtest results. Let me know if you have any questions.


NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Atlantean Palace Guards
Army Test
Map: Mole Hills
Units: Atlantean Palace Guards, Sub-Mariner, Mera, Aqualad, Tempest vs Mystique(200), Magneto (375), Avalanche, Pyro, Trickster(65)

Game 1:
Normal Attack Damage:
Magneto 2 wounds R3T2
Magneto 3 wounds R3T2
Pyro 1 wound R4T1
3 misses


Water Strength 1
4 out of 6 attacks they were in water
4 out of 5 defense in water

Loyal to the Throne
Used 6 times

Protect the Throne
I don't have an accurate count of times used, but I definitely changed attack strategies based on bonuses. In the 1st three rounds at least 2 guards were with both Namor and Mera


Recap

Round 1 started with both Namor and Mera moving out with their guards toward the water. Aqualad missed 2 attacks on Mystique and and took 2 wounds from her. Tempest placed a water piece and put a wound on Mystique. Mystique never rolled higher than a 4 so wasn't able to bond with any mutants which put her team behind early.

Round 2 saw Namor and Mera both make it to the water with all 4 guards. Aqualad was killed by Mystique but took a wound from Namor via Water Avenger. Mystique attacked a guard but missed and was killed the following turn by Namor giving her 4 wounds and a wasted turn 3 order marker(which started a trend).

Round 3 had the mutants in trouble with Mystique and her bonding now gone. Avalanche tried his special attack which affected all 4 of the Royal Guards but blanked his roll, Magneto and Pyro were able to move out. Namor swung and missed on Magneto. Pyro put his special attack to good use targeting 2 Royal Guards and Mera, killing 1 guard and giving Mera 2 wounds. Turn 2 saw the Royal guards go on the offensive, Guard 1 hit Magneto for 2 wounds, Guard 2 hit Magneto for 3 more wounds killing him and Guard 3 missed a ranged shot at Pyro.
Once again a 3rd order marker goes to waste with Magneto gone.

Round 4 started with the Royal guards again attacking, Guard 1 missed Pyro, Guard 2 put 1 wound on Pyro from range, and Guard 3 missed Pyro from range. Pyro gets some revenge, 1st he engulfs Guard 1 killing him, then his uses his special attack putting 1 wound on Tempest and killing Guard 2. Namor attacks Pyro giving him 2 wounds. Earthquake tries his special attack and again blanks. Tempest finally ends Pyro and for a 3rd straight round the 3 order marker is wasted, as it was placed on Pyro.

Round 5 and 6 were really clean up. The highlights were: Namor one shots Trickster, Avalanche missed both of his attacks and takes 2 wounds from from both Namor and Tempest. And once again the 3rd order marker is wasted with Trickster dead. In round 5 Avavlanche did give Namor 2 wounds but was killed the following turn by the Sub-Mariner to end the game.



Who won? The Atlanteans
List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes):
1 Royal Guard
4 life Namor
3 life Mera
3 life Tempest



-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Army Test
Map: Mole Hills
Units: Living Laser, Kingpin 220, Sandman, Bullseye, Hired Guns vs Aquaman 230, Mera, Tempest plus 35pts of spells, Aqualad, Royal Guards

Game 2:
Normal Attack Damage:
Hired Gun 1 wound R4T1
3 misses



Water Strength 1
4 out of 4 attacks they were in water
9 out of 9 defense in water


Loyal to the Throne
Used 7 times


Protect the Throne
I don't have an accurate count of times used, but my opponent definitely changed attack strategies based on bonuses. In the 1st three rounds at least 2 guards were with both Aquaman and Mera


Recap:

Round 1 Tempest and Aqualad move out with Tempest placing water. Kingpin and the Hired Guns move out. Aquaman and 2 Guards move toward water taking the slower route but moving away from the Hired Guns. Kingpin and the Guns move into range of Aqualad putting 2 wounds on him. Mera moves out with the other 2 Guards following Aquaman. Kingpin and the Guns take aim at Aqualad killing him and put 1 wound on Tempest.

Round 2 Kingpin gets Living Laser and his big move out to play with the Guns in a good spot. Tempest takes advantage if the Hired Guns placement and places a (future key) water tile killing 2 Guns in the process. Not liking that Kingpin has the remaining 2 Hired Guns shoot at Tempest giving him a wound in three out of 4 of their attacks killing him. Aquaman and his Guards reach the water. Living Laser takes a ranged shoot at a Guard and misses. Mera moves with her Guards but doesn't get to water yet.

Round 3 sees a shift in the action, Aquaman is able to water leap to one of the tiles Tempest placed and is able to put 4 wounds on Kingpin. Kingpin has the Hired Guns take shots at Aquamans Royal Guards missing 3 out of 4 attacks but killing 1, Kingpin tries unsuccessfully to leave engagement with Aquaman taking a wound and dying, wasting order markers 2 and 3. With the 2 extra turns Aquaman links back up with a Guard and takes out another Hired Gun. Mera misses her attempt at the last Gun.

Round 4 starts with Living Laser killing another Guard and the Guards killing the last Hired Gun. Bullseye was able to hit Aquaman from range putting 3 wounds on him. The Royal Guards take 2 shots at Bullseye but miss.

Round 5 Aquaman gives Bullseye a wound. Living Laser kills Guard number 3. Aquaman gives 3 more wounds to Bullseye. Bullseye and the last Guard miss ranged shots at each other.

Round 6 Bullseye changes targets and misses a shot at Mera. Aquaman then kills Bullseye. Living Laser gives Mera a wound but takes 3 from Aquaman. Laser then kills the last Royal Guard, but goes down to an attack from Mera.

Round 7 has a showdown between Sandman and the Atlanteans, but Sandman makes a mistake move and gets into range of the same tile that Tempest placed earlier and Aquaman water leaps to it attacks from range in the water with height and rolls 6 skulls and Sandman blanks leaving his owner in disbelief!




Who won? The Atlanteans

List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes):
3 life Aquaman
4 life Mera







THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: These guys are great. The Atlanteans are strong but add these guys in and wow they are a force. At 170 points they are pretty strong but not overwhelmingly so. I can't see ever playing with a king or queen without them in the army, they are a must.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: These guys are game changers for the Atlantean Royalty. Strong on their own with the guards they are very tough to beat. So many times my opponents had to rethink their attacks with all the bonuses. Their main weakness is special attacks that can hit many adjacent enemies with them needing to be podded up. Auto wounds can do them in as well(Pyros engulf took one down, Magneto died before he had his chance.) All in all a very cool unit that adds a lot to its faction.

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  #70  
Old October 8th, 2018, 12:17 PM
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Re: The Book of Atlantean Palace Guards (Public PT)

Looks awesome! I played some Atlanteans recently while testing Ocean Master and I was missing some protection in my army for sure. I'm really glad Ericth74 thinks they are essential drafts.

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  #71  
Old October 8th, 2018, 02:48 PM
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Re: The Book of Atlantean Palace Guards (Public PT)

Yeah, I like that they are really key defenders of the throne. It's just the huge wins they keep pulling down. I really think they to have their base def. drop by 1 and a points increase as well. If any army should have been able to beat them it should have been one with Magneto II in it. He can toss the King/Queen away from the guards and remove their bonuses or toss the guards themselves and just take them out with a d20 roll, yet his team was clobbered. Looking at the details, Magneto II was killed by just 2 Palace Guard attacks and he's got 7 defense, so maybe their base attack should drop too. When Ocean Master is in play they could be a 4 figure range 5 squad with an attack of 5 or 6 as it currently stands. Speaking of Ocean Master, they will need to be tested together before I can vote to release either to the public.
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  #72  
Old October 8th, 2018, 09:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Atlantean Palace Guards (Public PT)

Yeah, I think a stat-nerf is in order here. They've only lost one game in public testing at this point, and I don't think the 30 point bump is enough to really address that.
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