The C3G Cave - Hangout

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Umm...Avengers is almost completely based off of Ultimates. Read the first series. The only thing they left out was Giant-man and Wasp, but they substituted Hawkeye and Black Widow for them. They are all very much the Ultimate version of characters. The story of Avengers was even very similar to the Chitauri storyline of Ultimates, with Loki and the professor taking on the role of the General who was secretly Chitauri.

[Karat]

Interesting.

[Hellfire]

Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie

Umm...Avengers is almost completely based off of Ultimates. Read the first series. The only thing they left out was Giant-man and Wasp, but they substituted Hawkeye and Black Widow for them. They are all very much the Ultimate version of characters. The story of Avengers was even very similar to the Chitauri storyline of Ultimates, with Loki and the professor taking on the role of the General who was secretly Chitauri.

I was just about to say the same thing. I liked the Ultimates line at first but they lost me by Ultimates 3.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Margloth

I don't think that's really fair though. Aside from gratuitous Batbutt shots, Forever is decently dark and cerebral, and Schumacher himself said he always wanted a chance to make a darker, more comic accurate Batman. The producers were terrified of the movie being dark like Returns (which is a bit of a morbid affair) and kept making him lighten the tone in order to make it more kid-friendly (remember how much Batman merchandise was around back then?).

Honestly it's probably more fair to blame Jack Nicholson. Yeah, his scenery chewing is part of what made Batman I a hit, it also said a bad precedent in hamminess that all the actors playing villains afterward tried to top. The biggest problem is they tried to shorhorn "Names" into the villain roles, as opposed to taking the Nolan approach of putting interesting actors in the roles. And this is why I think Williams as Two-Face could have put the quadrilogy on a better path, because A) he's an interesting actor and B) he was more interested in the character than being a "Performance".

Whereas Nicholson gets no quarter from me, calling Forever "cerebral" puts you and I far too far on separate ends of the universe for me to even debate you on this one.

Jim Carey and Tommy Lee certainly are "names" but those were probably the worst performances of their lives, and the script and direction had a huge amount to do with that. I've had Bat-poos that were more cerebral.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Have you seen "Man on the Moon"? If that Jim Carrey had played Riddler and the Tommy Lee Jones of "Men in Black" had played Two-Face, well, that franchise might have survived Alicia Silverstone and Arnold. Honestly, part of me thinks the writers of that franchise pulled a Sam Raimi (turning out a sequel so bad it killed the franchise.)

[ibechief]

Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie

Umm...Avengers is almost completely based off of Ultimates. Read the first series. The only thing they left out was Giant-man and Wasp, but they substituted Hawkeye and Black Widow for them. They are all very much the Ultimate version of characters. The story of Avengers was even very similar to the Chitauri storyline of Ultimates, with Loki and the professor taking on the role of the General who was secretly Chitauri.

I guess I just never saw it that way. There was way to much of the 616 in the movie for me to ever even think that it was based on the Ultimates. I still would lean in favor of saying that the movie only has slight Ultimate flair and is not at all based on Ultimate Marvel characters.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Cap has painted wings on his helmet and is revived in 21st century, Thor almost never wears his helmet and rarely wears a cape, Iron-Man all took place in 21st century, Hawkeye is a government assassin as opposed to a criminal circus performer, Nick Fury is black and only just started the Avengers as opposed to forming before Cap is revived, SHIELD answers to mystery people as opposed to being autonomous under Fury, Heck, Banner is even hinted at as having worked for Fury before when working on what turned him into the Hulk. Need I go on? Dude, no matter what you think, Avengers is the Ultimates.

[Arch-vile]

SHIELD has always answered to mystery people. Nick Fury vs SHIELD is a great comic where Fury realizes those black silhouettes aren't quite so trustworthy.

The rest are simply modernizations. Sure, it's similar to Ultimates, but it's similar to the original comics as well.

[ibechief]

Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie

Cap has painted wings on his helmet and is revived in 21st century, Thor almost never wears his helmet and rarely wears a cape, Iron-Man all took place in 21st century, Hawkeye is a government assassin as opposed to a criminal circus performer, Nick Fury is black and only just started the Avengers as opposed to forming before Cap is revived, SHIELD answers to mystery people as opposed to being autonomous under Fury, Heck, Banner is even hinted at as having worked for Fury before when working on what turned him into the Hulk. Need I go on? Dude, no matter what you think, Avengers is the Ultimates.

I never saw it in this light. I just assumed that they adjusted the the story -as most creative teams do- so that they could run with the script "as is". I will probably never be able to see them that way. It just doesnt make sense to me that they would make a movie about the Ultimates knowing that only a small portion of the comic readers care for them. Not to mention that they are just now rewriting all the standard universe origins.

Whatever the motives behind their choices the movie was an amazing hit and clearly resonated with viewers. I'm just stoked that after 10 full years of full on fantasy led box office numbers they are still producing more and more. It felt like the 90's had nothing decent to watch in theaters. I find myself going to the movies way more now than at any other time in my life.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Of course its similar to the original, Ultimates is a different take on the source material and is also similar. But it is more than similar to Ultimates, it mirrors Ultimates. But I can't make it any more clear and if you don't see the connection thats OK because the movie was still awesome!

[ibechief]

Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie

Of course its similar to the original, Ultimates is a different take on the source material and is also similar. But it is more than similar to Ultimates, it mirrors Ultimates. But I can't make it any more clear and if you don't see the connection thats OK because the movie was still awesome!

Even my mother went to see it and applauded the story. She has no clue who any of the characters are, but she liked the pretty colors and the flashing lights!

[Arch-vile]

The movie was awesome! It is pretty darn similar to Ultimates, I admit.