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  #745  
Old December 16th, 2014, 06:51 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

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Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Has anyone suggested limiting Cash's wound-blocking to non-adjacent normal attacks? It seems like letting specials and auto-wounds through would take the edge off some of his scarier combos without rendering him useless.
Personally, this is my favorite suggestion so far.

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  #746  
Old December 16th, 2014, 06:55 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Well, PROTECT AND SERVE's ability to prevent wounds from any source does lead to some very strange effects. Being able to block lava field damage, for instance, or being able to daisy chain defensive wounds (absorb Valkyrie's Deathglow Perception or Jocasta's Self Sacrifice wounds, for instance). So, just for that reason, I am in favor of preventing it from absorbing wounds from things other than attacks. (I personally think it's fine for it to work on Special Attacks, FWIW).

That said, that version, while solving the problem when playing against special power/special attack wounders, doesn't solve it against big hitters. Certain build types often don't have a special attack, and they are in the same spot that they are now.

Last edited by dok; December 16th, 2014 at 07:19 PM. Reason: clarity
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  #747  
Old December 16th, 2014, 07:14 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

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Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Has anyone suggested limiting Cash's wound-blocking to non-adjacent normal attacks? It seems like letting specials and auto-wounds through would take the edge off some of his scarier combos without rendering him useless.
Personally, this is my favorite suggestion so far.
That's my least favorite. Why would he only take wounds from non-adjacent attacks?

Why don't we just limit to attacks in general. That would let special powers get around it.
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  #748  
Old December 16th, 2014, 07:18 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Thematically speaking limiting it to normal attacks only makes sense. How does he block a mental attack anyway?
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  #749  
Old December 16th, 2014, 07:37 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Thematically speaking limiting it to normal attacks only makes sense. How does he block a mental attack anyway?
I hear that, but at the same time special attacks (and special powers FTM) are sometimes used to signify normal physical sorts of attacks, and sometimes normal attacks are used to signify unusual attack modes that would be hard to stand in front of.

Personally I definitely like making special power wounds work because of the odd corner cases I mention above (or at least, limit it to wounds caused by an opponent). But I'm not sure SA vs. Normal is worth dividing on, in C3G land.
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  #750  
Old December 16th, 2014, 07:41 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
PROTECTOR
Anytime an adjacent figure you control would receive one or more wounds from a normal attack, you may have Aaron Cash receive all of those wounds instead.
There. Now it also helps against non-special attack heavy hitter builds as well.

Edit:

As far as dividing special/normal attacks, it happens all the time with defensive powers. A lot of defensive powers only work vs. normal attacks.

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  #751  
Old December 16th, 2014, 07:43 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Thematically speaking limiting it to normal attacks only makes sense. How does he block a mental attack anyway?
While I agree, personally, I think this whole power is a mess thematically.

Say Thor(or whoever) rolls upwards of 8 skulls, and the defender rolls 0 shields, how exactly is Aaron Cash absorbing these wounds, surviving, with only 1 wound to him at that?

It really makes no sense. It's one thing if it were say, the Riddler attacking, and he absorbs a punch. But logistics and theme go out the window when anyone of any significant strength does a heavy blow, and the defending figure is supposed to take a good deal of wounds, potentially equal or higher than his own life, and yet he only receives one.

If the idea is he is taking the brunt of the damage, he should be taking the brunt of the damage. For 65 points, Red Skull combo or not, you're getting quite a defensive unit with that. But cost aside, it makes no thematic sense that a human guard can somehow absorb the bit and only take. 1 wound regardless of what is rolled.

I think the best way to do it, is limit it to normal attacks, and he can roll his defense dice on top of what the adjacent hero is rolling. So he is aiding in the block. Then whatever wounds are dealt, he takes 1 and the adjacent hero takes the rest. Or however you want to distribute them. You could flip flop it. But at least this method the amount of wounds aren't just magically gone from the aid of a human, it can still harm Red Skull, and it makes more thematic sense that he or the figure could still die, it's not a guarantee bypass. His added defense of 3 will be enough IMO to still make him a worthy draft.

I propose:

PROTECT AND SERVE
Anytime an adjacent figure you control is targeted for a normal attack, you may add Aaron Cash's defense to the defending figure's roll. If the defending figure receives one or more wounds from this attack, place 1 of those wounds on this card instead.

or

PROTECT AND SERVE
Anytime an adjacent figure you control is targeted for a normal attack, you may add Aaron Cash's defense to the defending figure's roll. If the defending figure receives one or more wounds from this attack, place 1 of those wounds on the defending figure's card, and any additional wounds on this card instead.
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  #752  
Old December 16th, 2014, 08:10 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
PROTECT AND SERVE
Anytime an adjacent figure you control is targeted for a normal attack, you may add Aaron Cash's defense to the defending figure's roll. If the defending figure receives one or more wounds from this attack, place 1 of those wounds on the defending figure's card, and any additional wounds on this card instead.
I like this option. I am even ok with it being used vs special attacks as well. I feel like Cash will still be used to great effect and will not seem overly powerful.
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  #753  
Old December 16th, 2014, 08:14 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Thematically speaking limiting it to normal attacks only makes sense. How does he block a mental attack anyway?
Thematically, he shouldn't - but thematically, Spider-Man and Daredevil shouldn't be able to dodge those attacks either. In fact, most people's defence shouldn't come into play against those attacks - it doesn't matter how impenetrable your skin in or how good your 'mad martial arts skillz' are when someones hurting you from inside your head - and yet all these can be used against Xavier, so making that argument for this guy's a bit weird. (Personally because of that I think telepathic attacks are best represented as auto-wounds when possible, but that's a different matter).

Personally, what's sounding best to me is make it so he receives all wounds and only works against attacks. (Having special powers circumvent seems somewhat thematic and tactically interesting). This seems the best and most obvious way to go both thematically and mechanically. You could even change the Beat Cops to that too, probably - the all wounds thing would just be a wording change, since receiving all wounds and being destroyed is, for a squaddie, essentially the same thing, and the only works against attacks part working just as well for them as Aaron. Personally, making it just normal attacks feels a tad resrictive to me.


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  #754  
Old December 16th, 2014, 08:45 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
PROTECT AND SERVE
Anytime a figure you control would receive one or more wounds, you may instead destroy an adjacent 5th Precinct Beat Cop.


PROTECT AND SERVE

Anytime a figure you control would receive one or more wounds from an attack, you may instead destroy an adjacent 5th Precinct Beat Cop.


PROTECT AND SERVE
Anytime a figure you control would receive one or more wounds from an attack, you may instead destroy the adjacent Aaron Cash you control.

Edit: If the power names are going to be the same, they should pretty much work the same or worded as close as possible IMO.

Adding the "from an attack" satisfies those that want it to work against both special and normal attacks but not against special powers or other weird things.

Seems that the majority want him to take all wounds, and it was also suggested to lower his life to 3 instead of 4.

Letting him get destroyed instead of only taking 1 or 2 wounds, makes the player decide if it's worth it, or letting the other figure take 1 wound and save Cash for a 4 wound save. As a bonus, it also keeps Red Skull from using his wounds to send to the opponent, or at least a wound that he'd take for RS. RS could still use wounds on Cash's card that he got from direct attacks

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Last edited by Hahma; December 16th, 2014 at 09:03 PM.
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  #755  
Old December 16th, 2014, 08:54 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Mechanically easy way to fix it...

Power name
Figures you control within X spaces of Aaron Cash add 2 dice to their defense.

Aaron Cash has become a lightning rod like our old pal Raelin. He is guarding other figures and ends up taking the hits they would have taken.

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  #756  
Old December 16th, 2014, 09:01 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

But then what about clear sight or if the the figure within 2 spaces is 11 levels higher than him, or what if he's stuck to Blob, and this also affects a large radius of figures. He's not Flash, running around blocking attacks against all those figures.

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