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  #865  
Old May 18th, 2018, 10:46 PM
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Re: Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

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Great job @Hahma . Has anyone had a chance to actually play the game?
Those look great @Hahma , way better than mine! These are the first real minis I've painted so I'm just learning the ropes for now.

I've played Legion about a half dozen times now. It's fun but it's like most minis games in that it's more of a light dice chucker with some pretty basic strategy and tactics thrown in. It's nowhere near as deep as FFG's miniatures/board game hybrid games like X-Wing and Armada, and, although it's very different, isn't even close in depth to HeroScape. I'm enjoying it as much for the hobby aspect now, the gameplay is fine but lacks depth. I can't see tournaments being too popular for Legion. It's a great casual game with friends though! I can't wait until the fall when I can have a few beers at my FLGS while playing it with buddies, I think that will really make it shine .

Also, it doesn't help that the people I've been playing with complain about every single bad roll they have while remaining silent about their amazing rolls. If there's one thing I have zero tolerance for in life, it's people who complain about dice. You bought into the game. It has dice. Deal with it.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 11:39 PM
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Re: Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

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Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by keglo View Post
Great job @Hahma . Has anyone had a chance to actually play the game?
Those look great @Hahma , way better than mine! These are the first real minis I've painted so I'm just learning the ropes for now.

I've played Legion about a half dozen times now. It's fun but it's like most minis games in that it's more of a light dice chucker with some pretty basic strategy and tactics thrown in. It's nowhere near as deep as FFG's miniatures/board game hybrid games like X-Wing and Armada, and, although it's very different, isn't even close in depth to HeroScape. I'm enjoying it as much for the hobby aspect now, the gameplay is fine but lacks depth. I can't see tournaments being too popular for Legion. It's a great casual game with friends though! I can't wait until the fall when I can have a few beers at my FLGS while playing it with buddies, I think that will really make it shine .

Also, it doesn't help that the people I've been playing with complain about every single bad roll they have while remaining silent about their amazing rolls. If there's one thing I have zero tolerance for in life, it's people who complain about dice. You bought into the game. It has dice. Deal with it.

Thanks OrcElfArmyOne!

While I haven't played it yet, I can't imagine it's going to have less depth than Heroscape. I mean, Heroscape is about as basic as it gets, though I still have fond memories of it.

I've played Armada a couple times and X-Wing a good bit for awhile after it first came out and I wouldn't say they had much depth either.

I would say that miniatures games like Guild Ball and Infinity have depth, as in having a lot of decisions and strategy.

With regards to Legion, I certainly don't expect it to be much more than a light minis game, and really don't expect it to be more basic than Heroscape, X-Wing or Armada.

After getting the 2 Duros finished painted this weekend, I'll have my first core set fully painted. I certainly don't expect much depth from this amount at all, just like there wasn't any with core sets of Scape, X-Wing or Armada. But I suspect that when I get the 2nd core set done, the 2 airspeeders and AT-ST done, there will be more options. Then when I get my Snowtroopers, Veers, Leia, Fleet Troopers, Han Solo, Rebel Commandos, Bobafet and Imperial Scouts, there will be plenty of depth, or at least enough for me.

I think part of the depth will stem from list building as with any game like this, but also the many different table setups allowing for different challenges in movement and line of sight. There is also the Defining the Battlefield step right before the game, where players have options to eliminate cards that determine the deployment zones, conditions and objectives. So, those seem to be neat choices that add depth because you are going to try to have the cards that end up being used be as favorable to your army build as possible.

The use of Command Cards adds some depth as to which card to play, because other than Standing Orders, you won't get any of those cards back once played. So there could be different decisions that have to be made as to when to play which one, depending on the deployment zones, conditions, objective and table setup. Add to that, new commanders will add more Command Cards to choose from, and the option to play 2 commanders. But still only having 7 cards out of all of them can make some of those pre-game decisions tough.

I wouldn't judge the game too much at this stage, because there is only a handful of units and cards that have even been released up until now. Sure it's a dice chucker like many table top minis games are, but also like other minis games, taking advantage of cover will be huge, army building will be huge, deployment choices will be important, and good tactics will be important. Anyone that is just throwing minis out there and playing without thinking isn't really playing the game.

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  #867  
Old May 19th, 2018, 12:18 AM
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Re: Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

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Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by keglo View Post
Great job @Hahma . Has anyone had a chance to actually play the game?
Those look great @Hahma , way better than mine! These are the first real minis I've painted so I'm just learning the ropes for now.

I've played Legion about a half dozen times now. It's fun but it's like most minis games in that it's more of a light dice chucker with some pretty basic strategy and tactics thrown in. It's nowhere near as deep as FFG's miniatures/board game hybrid games like X-Wing and Armada, and, although it's very different, isn't even close in depth to HeroScape. I'm enjoying it as much for the hobby aspect now, the gameplay is fine but lacks depth. I can't see tournaments being too popular for Legion. It's a great casual game with friends though! I can't wait until the fall when I can have a few beers at my FLGS while playing it with buddies, I think that will really make it shine .

Also, it doesn't help that the people I've been playing with complain about every single bad roll they have while remaining silent about their amazing rolls. If there's one thing I have zero tolerance for in life, it's people who complain about dice. You bought into the game. It has dice. Deal with it.

Thanks OrcElfArmyOne!

While I haven't played it yet, I can't imagine it's going to have less depth than Heroscape. I mean, Heroscape is about as basic as it gets, though I still have fond memories of it.

I've played Armada a couple times and X-Wing a good bit for awhile after it first came out and I wouldn't say they had much depth either.

I would say that miniatures games like Guild Ball and Infinity have depth, as in having a lot of decisions and strategy.

With regards to Legion, I certainly don't expect it to be much more than a light minis game, and really don't expect it to be more basic than Heroscape, X-Wing or Armada.

After getting the 2 Duros finished painted this weekend, I'll have my first core set fully painted. I certainly don't expect much depth from this amount at all, just like there wasn't any with core sets of Scape, X-Wing or Armada. But I suspect that when I get the 2nd core set done, the 2 airspeeders and AT-ST done, there will be more options. Then when I get my Snowtroopers, Veers, Leia, Fleet Troopers, Han Solo, Rebel Commandos, Bobafet and Imperial Scouts, there will be plenty of depth, or at least enough for me.

I think part of the depth will stem from list building as with any game like this, but also the many different table setups allowing for different challenges in movement and line of sight. There is also the Defining the Battlefield step right before the game, where players have options to eliminate cards that determine the deployment zones, conditions and objectives. So, those seem to be neat choices that add depth because you are going to try to have the cards that end up being used be as favorable to your army build as possible.

The use of Command Cards adds some depth as to which card to play, because other than Standing Orders, you won't get any of those cards back once played. So there could be different decisions that have to be made as to when to play which one, depending on the deployment zones, conditions, objective and table setup. Add to that, new commanders will add more Command Cards to choose from, and the option to play 2 commanders. But still only having 7 cards out of all of them can make some of those pre-game decisions tough.

I wouldn't judge the game too much at this stage, because there is only a handful of units and cards that have even been released up until now. Sure it's a dice chucker like many table top minis games are, but also like other minis games, taking advantage of cover will be huge, army building will be huge, deployment choices will be important, and good tactics will be important. Anyone that is just throwing minis out there and playing without thinking isn't really playing the game.
Except we have evidence in the form of tournament stats that heavily suggest otherwise for HeroScape, Armada, and X-Wing. All three are maybe 1% luck of the dice. Out of close to 150 Scape tournament games (100 of those at the GenCon skill level) I can remember losing one game and winning one game due to luck. That's it. Matchups definitely have their hands in a significant percentage. The rest is strategy and tactics, and Armada and X-Wing are both even deeper when it comes to that. We shall see if Legion has that depth.

For X-Wing, I am a Tier 2 player, mainly because I always switch up my lists and don't play enough (I've played more games of Scape in tourneys than games of X-Wing overall). It shows in my tournament win rate: exactly 50%. Compare that to the win rate of Paul Heaver or the Howards, and things line up. Compare that to my much higher skill level at Scape and my corresponding much higher win rate in Scape tournament games and it once again proves the depth. Compare that to the win rate of Dok and, once again, things line up.

I hope Legion will prove me wrong and I'll find some extra layers of depth past just command card usage and army building. As of now, I don't really feel I outplayed in my wins or was outplayed in my losses. It feels like both my opponent and I played at about the same level, and I had a tough time pinpointing more than a couple minor mistakes made in each game for each side.

Also, you're mistaking depth (vertical) for variety (horizontal). YuGiOh has a ton of variety but still lacks depth. Same with Pokemon. More units aren't going add that much depth to Legion's actual gameplay.
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Old May 19th, 2018, 02:23 AM
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Re: Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

[quote=OrcElfArmyOne;2194180][quote=Hahma;2194177]
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Except we have evidence in the form of tournament stats that heavily suggest otherwise for HeroScape, Armada, and X-Wing. All three are maybe 1% luck of the dice. Out of close to 150 Scape tournament games (100 of those at the GenCon skill level) I can remember losing one game and winning one game due to luck. That's it. Matchups definitely have their hands in a significant percentage. The rest is strategy and tactics, and Armada and X-Wing are both even deeper when it comes to that. We shall see if Legion has that depth.

For X-Wing, I am a Tier 2 player, mainly because I always switch up my lists and don't play enough (I've played more games of Scape in tourneys than games of X-Wing overall). It shows in my tournament win rate: exactly 50%. Compare that to the win rate of Paul Heaver or the Howards, and things line up. Compare that to my much higher skill level at Scape and my corresponding much higher win rate in Scape tournament games and it once again proves the depth. Compare that to the win rate of Dok and, once again, things line up.

I hope Legion will prove me wrong and I'll find some extra layers of depth past just command card usage and army building. As of now, I don't really feel I outplayed in my wins or was outplayed in my losses. It feels like both my opponent and I played at about the same level, and I had a tough time pinpointing more than a couple minor mistakes made in each game for each side.

Also, you're mistaking depth (vertical) for variety (horizontal). YuGiOh has a ton of variety but still lacks depth. Same with Pokemon. More units aren't going add that much depth to Legion's actual gameplay.

So if Scape, Armada or X-Wing had a grand total 4 or 5 unit types available for each side to choose from, they would still be really deep games? I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it.

I have no doubt that people that play "lifestyle" games a lot will gain more skill. That skill will come in many forms, but controlling dice rolls probably isn't one of them, other than playing units that allow some mitigation of die rolls. But people will still whiff defense rolls and lose units no matter how good a player they are.

Other than the lack of current army build choices, I guess I don't see what you think is the major difference with Legion, considering it shares many aspects of other FFG games with dice, actions to mitigate dice, upgrade cards etc. So how are people that make Legion a "lifestyle" game not going to get better skill wise, like they do with those other games mentioned?

At the end of the day, they are all going to be affected by dice rolls. Though for the most part, the good and bad rolls should balance out, where both sides get the benefits and penalties of them. So then it's left to the matchup aspect of army builds and actual tactics and strategy on the table.

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  #869  
Old May 20th, 2018, 12:24 PM
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Re: Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

The 2 rebel Duros from my first core set are done, and thus are all the models from my first core set.





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Old May 20th, 2018, 02:08 PM
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Re: Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

Those look great hahma. I also finished up my test project this morning. I finished up the 40 cultists with a handful of other figures and based them. They turned out great. Ill have to tag you when I post pics. Also about done stripping 3 sets of stormtroopers 2 sets of snowtroopers and 2 wampas. 17 figures. I really wish I knew how to paint white back then. They have been in brake fluid for a week and I scrubbed them with an old toothbrush twice. Not sure if they are getting painted next. I dug out some reaper bones and some mage knight figures that need some paint to add to the frostgrave ranks.
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Old May 20th, 2018, 04:14 PM
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Re: Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

I saw those Cultists on FB @TREX , they look great!

Now that I have the first core set done, I have scheduled a game with my buddy Brian on June 2nd at my group's Saturday all day event. It's the group's 7th year anniversary, so it should get a pretty good turnout of may 30 of us. A good time to show off some Legion.

I still have almost 2 weeks before that and a 4 day weekend over Memorial Day weekend, so I'm debating on trying to paint 1 of the 2 rebel squads from my 2nd core set and 1 of the 2 Stormtrooper squads, just to have more troops on the ground. Or, trying to get one of the 2 airspeeders and the AT-ST done to have more pizazz. I think I'll go with the troops, mainly because it will still be a learning game (though I'll try to try a solo practice game next weekend to get familiar with it before teaching ). Also because I should be getting a squad of Snowtroopers and Fleet Troopers coming in soon, as well as Leia. So this way I'll be sure to get more of the standard troops done before jumping on the new shiny

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Old May 27th, 2018, 06:55 PM
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Re: Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

A couple of quick pictures. One is of the verrrry basic learning game from the Star Wars Legion core set, after the end of one round.

Only the basic infantry units plus the 1 extra trooper per squad, but no special weapons. Straight up speeder bikes, AT-RT has laser cannon, and vanilla Luke and Vader. No upgrade cards other than the extra basic trooper per squad. Basic terrain from core set and no objectives. Only using the 4 generic command cards per side instead of 7 that include the ones from the leaders. But it is certainly a good way to learn the basics for a first game. This learning game is also played on a 3x3 surface instead of the normal 6x3, though I have a double-sided 6x4 that I will use for the normal games. Here, I used a 4x4 and marked smaller perimeter. I plan on playing this with my friend Brian at our group's all day event on June 2nd, our group's 7 year anniversary. Hopefully others will give it a as well.




The other picture is of my 3rd squad of Stormtroopers, 1st one from 2nd core set. A little different basing, that could be suited for tundra, desert or whatever.


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Old May 27th, 2018, 06:59 PM
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Re: Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

Nice @Hahma those look fantastic, I also have some Imperial Assault stormtroopers complete. Not on the playing field but.....what do you do.











I'm already burning through my snow troopers as well. Almost done with 6 of them and the snow trooper driven tank. I'm very excited and happy with these paint jobs.
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Old May 27th, 2018, 09:19 PM
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Re: Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

Wow @TREX , you have a boatload done. Some neat variety in models and I like the red and white color scheme. You keep cranking them out

Since I'm only going to play the very very vanilla basic game next Saturday, like the one pictured, I'm not going to bother with my 3rd squad of rebels yet, nor my 2 Airspeeders or AT-ST, or General Veers that I just got. I have the 3rd rebel squad, Veers and 1 Airspeeder primed, but I want to take a break from Star Wars stuff for a little bit and try to work on 7 Infinity models from the Operation Icestorm 2 player starter set. It comes with 7 models from the Nomads faction and PanOceana faction.

I want to get these 7 models painted, but I won't get them to look like these that were done by a pro. But I will take more time on each one that I did for Legion.




My buddy Chris has a lot of Infinity stuff, and he likes the Ariadna faction and the Yu Jing faction. They have incredible metal models, with a lot of small pieces to assemble, but super detailed and unique.

Chris's schedule has be crazy over the past 6 months, and in addition to his regular work schedule being crazy, he's also going back to school for electrical engineering. He's probably the smartest guy I know, and someone that has his hands into everything. Aside from miniature gaming/painting, he is a great electric guitar player, and super into outer space and has an great telescope setup and likes to view the sun (with filters of course) and all the other great things out there. But anyway, he will be getting a little break from school soon and mentioned that he wants to try to get in a game of Infinity, Frostgrave Ghost Archipelago, hopefully Guild Ball and maybe a game of The Drowned Earth. So that's why I want to take a break from Legion for a little bit, because I want to get those Infinity models and The Drowned Earth models painted over the next month or so and maybe sneak in some Legion here and there. He's not into Legion, as that is for other buddies of mine to play with.

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Old May 28th, 2018, 01:17 AM
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Re: Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

I look forward to seeing any new paintjobs you do. Ill be churning out all my imp assault figures next then on to the next project.
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Old May 29th, 2018, 12:25 AM
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Re: Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

I started working on my Nomads for Infinity and was able to get one of the Corregidor Alguaciles done, other than varnishing.

These are 28mm metal models that needed assembling. I had done that with all 29 models I have between the Nomads and PanOceana, as well as stamp basing with greenstuff at my friend Chris' house, as he has a lot of cool stamps. Then I had primed them all. I like to assemble, base and prime models right when I get them, like I did with these and The Drowned Earth models. Even though I know I can't start painting them right away, it's great to have them all "ready" to paint when the time or ambition allows.

She looks much better in person, with the highlights and shading looking better. But phone camera and not so great lighting in my office kind of limit things in that department








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