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  #85  
Old January 20th, 2014, 11:27 AM
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Re: The Book of Cecil Stedman ~~ Playtesting Phase

Not too worried here, I thought Rl'nnd would be a good teammate here, but I found the combo hardly broken.

His second test it looks like Invincible cleaned out with his Super punch. Multi-target attacks vs 16 Kree, I think that might be why he won, there!
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  #86  
Old January 21st, 2014, 03:12 AM
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Re: The Book of Cecil Stedman ~~ Playtesting Phase

Subscribed again .
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  #87  
Old January 24th, 2014, 02:09 AM
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Re: The Book of Cecil Stedman ~~ Playtesting Phase

From Sock:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: Cecil Stedman

- THEME TEST
Pass

- MIRROR TEST
Pass


- BONDING TEST
Pass


- SYNERGIES TEST
Pass

- POWER CHECK
Pass

- FUN TEST
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST
Pass

- USAGE TEST
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST
Pass

_________________________________________________________

Army Test 1

Does it pass, Yes or No?
-Yes
What should be the unit's point value?
-190
Damage:
-2 wounds on Starfire. 2 wounds on Raven. 2 wounds on Nightwing.
Give a brief overview:-I thought Cecil played pretty well here. I like the teleport, very useful when he gets the heat put on him, and needs a quick getaway. I also like how he works with Agents, as well as 1 unique Champion. He definitely fills a role, and although his stats are low, to balance him out, I think with the right team, he does just fine. I feel the only reason he lost the game, is due to how tricky Nightwing can be to kill with attacks. It's all up to the dice at that point.
Map: Country Road(No Superstrength or Destructible Objects)
Units:
Cecil Stedman, Invincible, Gorilla Man, Dum Dum Dugan, Invisible Woman (1015)vs.
Nightwing, Beast Boy & Transformations, Starfire, Cyborg, Raven (1000)


Spoiler Alert!



Army Test 2

Does it pass, Yes or No?
-Yes
What should be the unit's point value?
-190
Damage:
-2 wounds on Karate Kid. 3 wounds on Lady Shiva.
Give a brief overview:-This was a little bit better of a showing for them, and it felt like a pretty even battle. Cecil got lucky Lady Shiva didn't do him in in the beginning, but after that, he remained in control for most of the game. I felt with his attack, and then another turn, he can easily live up to his potential. I'm satisfied with how everything went.
Map: Country Road(No Superstrength or Destructible Objects)
Units:
Cecil Stedman, Gorilla Man, Wonder Woman, Black Widow, Dum Dum Dugan (910)vs.
Iron Fist, Psylocke, Karate Kid, Lady Shiva (915)


Spoiler Alert!
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  #88  
Old January 24th, 2014, 02:10 AM
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Re: The Book of Cecil Stedman ~~ Playtesting Phase

I'm okay with moving ahead at 190. Anybody want to see more tests?
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  #89  
Old January 24th, 2014, 02:58 PM
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Re: The Book of Cecil Stedman ~~ Playtesting Phase

I propose we move to Final Editing at 190!

I'll grab mini pictures and put up a tutorial over the weekend.
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  #90  
Old January 24th, 2014, 03:51 PM
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Re: The Book of Cecil Stedman ~~ Vote for Final Editing!

yea to editing

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  #91  
Old January 24th, 2014, 04:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Cecil Stedman ~~ Vote for Final Editing!

Sorry to drop in on this one later in the process (I've been catching up back home the last couple of days and am now catching up here). Looking at the public playtests, there were three really strong margin of victory wins with him at 190. If we want to go forward at 190, I'd rather see a third test first (especially since one of the public testers felt he was too powerful at 190).

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  #92  
Old January 24th, 2014, 05:30 PM
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Re: The Book of Cecil Stedman ~~ Vote for Final Editing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Sorry to drop in on this one later in the process (I've been catching up back home the last couple of days and am now catching up here). Looking at the public playtests, there were three really strong margin of victory wins with him at 190. If we want to go forward at 190, I'd rather see a third test first (especially since one of the public testers felt he was too powerful at 190).
I'm almost of the opinion that he needs another test @ 200-210 points.
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  #93  
Old January 24th, 2014, 05:41 PM
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Re: The Book of Cecil Stedman ~~ Vote for Final Editing!

I'm fine with another test, but I don't think he needs an increase. He's significantly weaker than Nick Fury, who's only 30 points ahead at this point.

Plus I tested that exact combo that HS Guy tested and thought was broken, and it was totally fine for me.
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  #94  
Old January 24th, 2014, 08:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Cecil Stedman ~~ Vote for Final Editing!

You guys know I'm always on board with more tests. You could even ask the next tester to try him once with Super Skrull, just to get another opinion on that combo.

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  #95  
Old January 29th, 2014, 07:40 PM
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Re: The Book of Cecil Stedman ~~ Vote for Final Editing!

Viegon:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon
Here's my report.

I'm really not sure what to say about Stedman. In some ways he's pretty cool, fun, and useful; in others I find him needlessly complex, gimmicky, unexciting, and not very useful. In some combos he's really strong, possibly too strong; in others, he's quite weak.

Let me break it down:

Government Funded Heroes: On the Agent side of things, this power comes off kind of bland and isn't very strong considering the other Agent synergies out there and other generic OM hubs. On the other side, it works well with the Champions, filling a unique role, and is actually really quite strong. Used as an Agent leader, I find Stedman's cost needs to come down; used with the Champions, his cost needs to go up quite a lot.

Taxpayer Teleportation Tech: I used this power only once in three games, and don't see myself using it often. Being so fragile but working as an OM hub, you really don't want to move Stedman out of the base. And even if you do, you'll probably want to save the "X" OM for his other power or for other units in your army. "X" OM tension is normally a lot of fun, but since it's a power not often used and not overly strong, it doesn't work out here. I personally think the design would be better off with the OM part of the power dropped for simplicity.

Global Defense Agency: When I first saw Stedman, I thought this power looked like a lot of fun. But after playing it, I was quite disappointed. If Cecil is being targeted I'm not playing him well, and even once I use the power it has very minimal affect except to help deploy my army. The only time I see it having any real impact is if my opponent tries to snipe Cecil and I'm able to fling someone like Mockingbird across the map to tie down the enemy and protect Stedman. The thing is, my opponent would just not attack from range and wait to get someone into melee to attack Stedman, or wait until Stedman doesn't have an available OM to use. It just comes off as a very wordy but extremely gimmicky power.

As to balance, I found the Stedman/Rl'nnd/Mongul/Angel combo really, really strong; the double attack boost backed by OM safety and Warworld's Orbital Assault is deadly. Stedman's cost seems like it definitely needs to go up to balance this army. On the other hand, I found Stedman very weak with the Agents, at his current cost I don't see using him in Agent builds except maybe as OM back-up in a very high cost game.

So overall, I'm just not sure. When played in Champion armies he's useful and fun enough, though a little too strong. But in any other build he's weak, gimmicky, and tends to disappoint.

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Cecil Stedman

- THEME TEST
Pass

- MIRROR TEST
Pass

- BONDING TEST
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST
Pass

- POWER CHECK
Pass

- FUN TEST
Tentative Pass, despite having three new and complex powers, Stedman is really quite lackluster in play.

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST
Tentative Pass, as-is I'd definitely play him in a Champion army. But as-is I don't see myself playing him in any Agent armies.

- USAGE TEST
Tentative Fail, both Taxpayer Teleportation Tech and Global Defense Agency aren't very useful.

- STRATEGY TEST
Pass

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test 1
- Does it pass, Yes or No?
Tentative Pass
- What should be the unit's point value? 190 is looking too low.
- Give a brief overview. Going into this game, I wasn't overly concerned about the Cecil/Mongul/Rl'nnd combo, it seemed to be putting too many points and too much focus into one offensive unit. After the game, I'm concerned. Admittedly, the lack of range in the opponent's army allowed Cecil's team to control the battlefield, which turned out to be a big advantage; still, they came out on top with the only casualty on their side being Angel, who by that point had done all he had been needed to do. I'm going to have to try this combo again...

UNIT SUM-UP
Damage: Stedman never attacked.
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Government Funded Heroes: Super-Skrull (Rl'nnd) chosen. Used to take a turn with Rl'nnd 9 times. Boosted 13 attacks.
Taxpayer Teleportation Tech: Used 0 times.
Global Defense Agency: Stedman was never targeted.

Map: A custom Asteroid M map, RotV x2, FotA x1 (no glyphs or special rules)
Units: Cecil Stedman, Super-Skrull (Rl'nnd), Mongul, Angel (900 points) VS Volstagg, Hogun, Fandral (920 points)
Spoiler Alert!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon
_____________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
- Does it pass, Yes or No?
Tentative Fail
- What should be the unit's point value? Higher than 190.
- Give a brief overview. I matched the same Cecil/Mongul/Rl'nnd team against a Legionnaire build, hoping the high mobility and range of the Legionnaires could match the Super-Skrull. The Legionnaires faired much better then the Warriors Three, but still Cecil and Rl'nnd came out on top. As-is this army seems too strong, and I'm not certain just bumping Cecil's cost will remedy it.

UNIT SUM-UP
Damage: 1 wound to Colossal Boy.
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Government Funded Heroes: Super-Skrull (Rl'nnd) chosen. Used to take a turn with Rl'nnd 10 times. Boosted 14 attacks.
Taxpayer Teleportation Tech: Used 1 times.
Global Defense Agency: No Agents.

Map: A custom Asteroid M map, RotV x2, FotA x1 (no glyphs or special rules)
Units: Cecil Stedman, Super-Skrull (Rl'nnd), Mongul, Angel (900 points) VS Cosmic Boy, Karate Kid, Colossal Boy, Timber Wolf (925 points)
Spoiler Alert!


_____________________________________________________________

Army Test 3
- Does it pass, Yes or No?
Tentative Pass
- What should be the unit's point value? With his Agent synergies, 190 seems high.
- Give a brief overview. I was kind of excited to try Stedman with the Agents, but this game was a bit disappointing. He didn't feel nearly his points worth, and Global Defense Agency, which sounded really fun, just turned out to be gimmicky and not very useful. The Agents did pull out the win, but only due to the Titans having horrible luck and units like Commander Rogers being brutally strong.

UNIT SUM-UP
Damage: N/A.
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Government Funded Heroes: No hero chosen. Used to take a turn with an Agent 10 times.
Taxpayer Teleportation Tech: Used 0 times.
Global Defense Agency: Stedman targeted 2 times, OM removed 2 times. Re-targeting made a difference 0 times.

Map: A narrow custom map similar to Sewer Labyrinth, BftU x1 and FotA x2 (no glyphs or special rules)
Units: Cecil Stedman, Mockingbird, Commander Rogers, Dum Dum Dugan, Black Widow, Ant-Man (Eric O'Grady) (890 points) VS Nightwing, Red Robin, Beast Boy (normal, T-Rex, Bear, Pterodactyl, and Cheetah forms), Cyborg, Wonder Girl (900 points)
Spoiler Alert!
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  #96  
Old January 29th, 2014, 07:45 PM
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Re: The Book of Cecil Stedman ~~ Vote for Final Editing!

Well, I totally forgot Mongul existed when working on this guy. Didn't think of that combo. That said, it still doesn't feel that crazy strong. But what if we added a range restriction to the bonus attack?

Quote:
GOVERNMENT FUNDED HEROES
At the start of the game, choose one Unique Hero you control. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Cecil Stedman, you may either take a turn with the chosen Unique Hero, or any Agent hero you control. If the chosen Hero is a Champion, and is within 6 clear sight spaces of Cecil Stedman, that figure rolls 1 additional attack die.
Think that would work? I can ask Viegon if he thinks that would help, if you guys would be okay with this change. It would limit his usage with Mongul, bring him closer to the battle, and get potentially more use out of his other two abilities then.
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