Public Design Workshop

[Good Pig]

I could see Apocalypse being somewhere in the 500-600 point range with the horsemen being around 200-300 a piece. It would be nice to have him and the 4 horsemen be available for a 1,500-1,600 point game. Could pit them against Anti-Monitor or almost all of the X-Men.

[Griffin]

Bats' Apoc write up is so freaking good, it makes me wonder if he shouldn't be the LD. Honestly Hidicul, you should take as many notes on that write up as possible if you want my vote for you to LD Apoc, and with all the work that is needed to be done (Apoc, Death, Famine, Plague, Pestilence, Horses, all those glyphs) I am wondering if you can even handle all of that responsibility. I mean I respect your ambition, but there are several things holding you back.:

1 - You are not active enough year round to get the job done
2 - you are an ally and so you don't have the ability to constantly work on the designs like a Hero does
3 - you don't have the experience that makes me comfortable with you taking such a big project. You have only done one design before. I trust Scapemage more for something like this and the Sanctum denied him doing a Blackest Night pack.

I think you should crawl before you walk, and maybe just starting with Plaque (which is a pretty good write up) is best, without getting too attached to the idea that you are going to do it all yourself.

[IAmBatman]

I'm fond of Famine myself.
I would be OK, I think, if things ended up with Hidicul doing the Horsemen designs and Apocalypse and his glyphs coming from the Sanctum, though.
Even though now I spilled the beans on all my good ideas.

[Good Pig]

Tricking him out with different glyphs of your choice every game sounds incredibly fun and thematic for him. Like picking out options on a new car. I'll pass on the sun roof for some bun warmers.

[Griffin]

Famine, yeah Famine is the one I liked.

And I agree with GP that several Techno glyphs to choose from is a fun idea.

[Scapemage]

Originally Posted by Griffin

Bats' Apoc write up is so freaking good, it makes me wonder if he shouldn't be the LD. Honestly Hidicul, you should take as many notes on that write up as possible if you want my vote for you to LD Apoc, and with all the work that is needed to be done (Apoc, Death, Famine, Plague, Pestilence, Horses, all those glyphs) I am wondering if you can even handle all of that responsibility. I mean I respect your ambition, but there are several things holding you back.:

1 - You are not active enough year round to get the job done
2 - you are an ally and so you don't have the ability to constantly work on the designs like a Hero does
3 - you don't have the experience that makes me comfortable with you taking such a big project. You have only done one design before. I trust Scapemage more for something like this and the Sanctum denied him doing a Blackest Night pack.

I think you should crawl before you walk, and maybe just starting with Plaque (which is a pretty good write up) is best, without getting too attached to the idea that you are going to do it all yourself.

It takes a long time for something like this. You'd have to have all of those design spots in a row, which is unlikely. Even if you get enough points, like Tickle and his Power Pack, working on them gradually is the way to go. The biggest thing you need is devotion. I would suggest getting write-ups for everyone worked on a little before you start any of them. That way, you won't run out of ideas and can get an order of priority in your designs.

Back on topic, I think that Hidicul's write-up is overpowered. 4 complete turns? That's more than a round. I would definately restrict it to within 6 clear sight spaces or something like that. Plus, with regeneration, I think he's over 400 points.

[IAmBatman]

Well GoodPig seems in favor of him being around a 600 point Event Hero and the idea's growing on me ... what do others think?
Would you prefer a 400 or so point Apocalypse unique hero or a 600 or so point Apocalypse event hero?

[Hahma]

Regarding Apocalypse:

I think for sure he needs to be designed in the Sanctum. Otherwise I think the Horsemen are fine to be public.

Regarding Event Hero status, well I haven't seen him enough to be an expert, though the few times I have, he seems to be pretty badazz. I guess what I'm wondering in regards to the comparison to Darkseid and Thanos, is how they are represented the most in comics or cartoons the most. Are Thanos and Darkseid more represented in conquering worlds with their armies and being mostly represented as being badazz 1 v 1 or 1 v a few? Or are they represented mostly where they take on either the entire Justice League/Avengers/X-Men all by themselves most of the time? Is Apocalypse represented mostly as taking on the entire super groups mostly or is he represented as conquering worlds with his armies mostly? I guess what I'm asking is while we all know that Darkseid and Thanos have immense power, but are they represented using that power in the same way Apocalypse is? I'm asking because I'm no expert on any of them.

I love the design by the way Bats, great job

I love the glyph idea and the mixing and matching is genius and should provide lots of variation and choices for different feeling character just about every time he's played. That said, I think perhaps it can be dropped down to 8. If he were made an Event Hero, you can have a built in Mental Shield. He could have built in Super Strength and the Mace and Shield can be represented in his stats, as the Shield can be good vs. ranged attacks too and if you reduce his range to 2, then bumping up his normal attack (mace) would be easier to deal with. This would make the Glyph of the Laser Gun more of choice for him because if he already had a range of 4 with a beefy attack, then a Laser Gun might not add much and not be as much of a tough choice to make in picking glyphs to use. But if his base stats are beefed up some and his range dropped, then the option of Laser Gun with a nice range and perhaps being a special attack, would be more enticing and make him play different.

If we didn't go Event Hero on him, I think you could still have 9 glyphs (Mental Shield added).

Regarding having variable Horsemen available for him to activate, I'm against that. For one, I like how it mimics Prof X in activating 2 figures. I also think that he has more control than to just have a random number of Horseman take turns. But most importantly for me anyway is that this guy is going to be swingy enough as it is with glyphs and how variable the designs of the Horseman are going to be. So in order to keep the swinginess down as much as possible, two activations consistently would be the best route IMO. Believe me, it's hard enough to balance and price designs at this power level as it is, we don't need any more randomness to make it next to impossible to get right.

Edit: for what it's worth, I like the Famine design a lot.

Also, based on Bats' last post (ninja'd me) I would think he could be an Event Hero as well. It would simply the lessening of the glyph pool and represent him in the fashion that I believe (from comments I've read by others) that most represents him in taking on a boat load of opponents.

[IAmBatman]

Great points about swinginess, Hahma. I definitely agree. And if we do go Event Hero, swinginess becomes even more of an issue.

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Well GoodPig seems in favor of him being around a 600 point Event Hero and the idea's growing on me ... what do others think?
Would you prefer a 400 or so point Apocalypse unique hero or a 600 or so point Apocalypse event hero?

I like both ideas. I'dstill prefer that he has some good combat ability or something, so even without Horsemen he's a huge threat, but I can see wanting to go with this route.
But yeah, I like not using the d20 pretty much unless you have to, and I think Apocalypse should be one to be fairly consistent.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Great points about swinginess, Hahma. I definitely agree. And if we do go Event Hero, swinginess becomes even more of an issue.

You're preachin' to the choir my brotha

[Good Pig]

Originally Posted by Hahma

Regarding Event Hero status, well I haven't seen him enough to be an expert, though the few times I have, he seems to be pretty badazz.

It seems like people are open to the 600 point Event Hero idea, but to that point in an episode where he faces the X-Men he tells them that he has evolved past mutants as much as mutants have evolved past regular humans. It would feel wrong if he would lose a 1v1 match up against Colossus or Magneto.

Originally Posted by Hahma

If he were made an Event Hero, you can have a built in Mental Shield. He could have built in Super Strength and the Mace and Shield can be represented in his stats, as the Shield can be good vs. ranged attacks too and if you reduce his range to 2, then bumping up his normal attack (mace) would be easier to deal with. This would make the Glyph of the Laser Gun more of choice for him because if he already had a range of 4 with a beefy attack, then a Laser Gun might not add much and not be as much of a tough choice to make in picking glyphs to use.

Love this!

Originally Posted by Hahma

So in order to keep the swinginess down as much as possible, two activations consistently would be the best route IMO.

Two activations with really powerful mutants from a smaller pool would still allow for a lot of flexibility and make him different enough from Prof X.

Just thinking about the Horsemen. Since almost all of them could have their own non-Horseman card, there could be a way to represent the same figure with a different card with an evil twist. For example Sunfire has been The Horseman Famine. I would imagine he'd have different abilities in his Horseman role than his regular X-Men role. So the name of the figure/card would be 'Pestilence' but where the secret identities are used you could have the name Sunfire: Shiro Yoshida, or just Shiro Yoshida similar to how the Green Lanterns are handled.