Movie: Spiderman 3

[Firemaster]

I just came back from watching S3, and I must agree with much that has been said. Here's my spoiler-review:

I'd first like to say that although there was much that I thought could have been done better, I still thought it was fairly good. I didn't think there was too much romantic type stuff, but I do think they took the angsty, dark-spidey thing too far. Onto my critique:

1. The villains, for the most part, were all wrong. I don't mind movie straying a bit from the comics, but they went too far. Sandman is supposed to be a rough and tough sailor-type person. In the movie he's little more than a sort-of nice guy who did the wrong thing for the right reason and was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I found the 'now that you've forgiven me, I shall go away quietly' scene at the end to be particularily unbelievable. It's a nice message, but totally wrong for what Sandman's caracter is supposed to be like. In Goblin's case, though the team up near the end was pretty cool, I didn't really like how they did him. I think they could have probably skipped him this movie and introduced him at a later time. Finally, Venom was the character I was most looking forward to seeing, and he was really cool; unfortunately, he was only on the screen for around 8 minutes, and half of that time was spent with his mask of doing a you-ruined-my-life-so-now-I-am-going-to-get-all-emotional-while-I-stick-a-pointy-stick-in-your-face-untill-someone-does-something-to-distract-me thing. I really hope that next movie or the one after, he is the only villain used (though I won't mind it if Carnage is added).

2. As I said, I didn't really mind the romance type stuff, it was the angsty type stuff that I was not so fond of. IMHO, I rather doubt that the symbiote would have caused Peter to go quite that far. I think they should have cut down on the 'dark-spidey' period of the movie and added it to Venom's screen time.

In conclusion, though I think the villains were not done right, and it could have done with less angst and more Venom, I think it is a pretty good movie; over all, I'd give it a 6.5-7/10.

[Havokscry]

Just curious, what's with all the hidden text? This is no different than a television show that has already aired. The movie is out and people should be able to discuss it.

[ej]

The movie's been out only for a few days. Therefore I'll keep everything I write about it spoiler-free if I can. I don't feel that spoilers can be openly discussed until a week after the video's been out.

[netherspirit]

Originally Posted by Havokscry

Just curious, what's with all the hidden text? This is no different than a television show that has already aired. The movie is out and people should be able to discuss it.

You're right. I updated the Spoilers Rules sticky to include movies.

http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=3199

Everyone should always assume there is something in a thread about a movie or TV show that has aired or been released that they haven't seen that they don't want to see.

[allskulls]

Goblin- Really cool suit and glyder but the mask was lost after 1 minute of fighting and wasn't seen again. His amnesia was just right for the storyline...he remembered everything but the bad. His memory was limited to the good, fun times he had with his bestest of friends that he would die for. Was his past all that rosey before injecting the serum or even before his dad died? That bump on his head made him too happy.

Sandman- Perfect actor for the job! He definitely had the look. The best scene was the moment he began to dematerialize, turning into sand. It was straight from SM #4. I just wish he didn't grow like he did. It seemed as if he combined himself with other sand (I'd hate to see him get to the beach). Plus the huge sand monster was horrible. Why did he all of a sudden become so slow? His character was really hurt by making him such a goody goody.

Venom- He did look cool but too much Eddie face time. Why did he get buff all of a sudden? And it was really sad that his voice did not change and he didn't say "we". Topher Grace did play a good bad guy, but the Venom role was just badly written. How did he know so much about Sandman? And why did the goody2shoes Sandman agree to join him? Would have been cool to see a real Venom vs Sandman fight too.

All of the origins (Spiderman getting the black suit, Sandman and Venom) were very weak. Coincidence made the whole movie. The worst was Eddie at the church, praying for Peter's death then finding him a few stories high in the bell tower fighting off the black suit. Peter just arbitrarily chose to go to a church and slip into the belltower. This could have been explained by Dr. Conner finding the symbiotes adverse reaction to sound just as Reed Richards did in the comics. That is what was missing with all the many origins to tell, was explaination. The first 2 movies did that very well. This one just left holes and went straight to the action.

The dancing scenes were funny. Especially seeing Mary Jane attempt to do the twist

Edit: Made hidden text visible.

[kenjib]

I don't expect a comic book movie to be realistic or plausible. In fact, even with it's glaring problems I'm sure that this movie is still far more plausible than most Spider Man comic books, or almost any superhero comic books for that matter (I loved the "Where do all of these guys come from?" line in the movie - which I think was a clear nod to this very point).

I liked all of the romance and inner conflict stuff and I thought that the "evil" spider man stuff was pretty funny. To be honest long action scenes in movies tend to bore me to death when you already know exactly how they are going to end, which is almost always the case. The really good movies have action sequences with major consequences, where you aren't sure what's going to happen, you might end up being surprised, and where the resolution of character relationships and drama is just as dominant as who is hitting you and what not (this is why The Empire Strikes Back has one of the most memorable cinema scenes ever, for example - and as another example I just finished watching House of Flying Daggers and the last fight scene is great because you really just don't know how it's going to turn out and there is so much at stake). I thought that the non-fighting parts of the movie helped to make it a movie rather than an extended and predictable video game (the exact trap that the sadly disappointed Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, despite breathtaking visuals, fell into).

My major problem with the movie was this:

Originally Posted by spoiler

The movie was missing a very important scene, perhaps the second most important scene in the movie. This movie actually didn't have three villains, it had two villains and two protagonists. Peter Parker was one, and Harry was the other one. His story arc in the movie was almost just as important as Peter Parker's. Unfortunately the most important moment in the movie for Harry was the one that never happened. Harry absolutely needed to confront his father and come to terms with his past. It is one of the fundamental aspects of the hero's journey and also necessary for the key parallel between the transformation that was simultaneously going to occur with Peter Parker in the end vis-a-vis confronting the "ghost" of his Uncle (who was his father figure) and coming to terms with his own past.

For me this goes beyond a nitpick or lost opportunity and is actually more of a critical flaw with the structure of the movie that hugely detracted from it for me. Once Harry came to the rescue without having done this I just felt let down for the rest of the movie and that entire plot line was ruined for me.

Originally Posted by MKSentinel

He makes a good French guy! He was also the ring announcer in 1, the doorman in 2 and even had a cameo in the crowd scene in Darkman at the end. He is in ALL Sam Raimi films somewhere...

I called the Bruce Campbell cameo before he even showed up. Peter Parker walked in to get his reservation at the restaurant and I turned to my friend and said that Bruce Campbell was going to be the maitre'd and then about 2 seconds later the camera framing pulls back and it's him. I thought he would give Spidey more of a hard time than he did though.

[allskulls]

Because a movie is based on a comic doesn't mean it should be expected to lack in cinematic value. All of the Spider-Man movies were untrue to the comic but this one was just a badly written "movie". Regardless of the genre, proper development of plot is necessary to make it good. Everything that happened was perfect coincidence to get to the fight scenes. Very uncreative.

It seemed like this movie was made with the standard that "comic book" movies are somehow supposed to be held. Why not just take some good characters and storylines from a book (comic or not) and adapt it into a good movie. Corny is OK but not when it messes with the plot. Use cheesy lines and even crying scenes but give us some substance in the core of the story. Harry's character (besides the amnesia) was the best because he was developed over the span of 2 movies before taking on SM as the Goblin. This is what should have been done with Venom...introduce him at the end of the movie and don't even have a fight scene. Sandman could have been left out and there would have been more time for the symbiote storyline.

All that being said, the movie was enjoyable. It just was not close to the other 2 IMHO.

[kenjib]

Sandman was in it to force Peter Parker to deal with his past at the same time that Harry had to deal with his. Not taking into account it's divergence from comic book canon it was actually a superb foil mechanism but they really screwed it up in execution. I actually think it's Venom, and not the Sandman, that should not have been in the movie because the Hobgoblin and Sandman plotlines where closely intertwined and integral to one another. There was also enough drama in the venom plotline for a completely seperate movie with all of the self-doubt and personality crisis* and using venom as a vehicle for revenge motivation re: Uncle Ben actually diluted the impact of that aspect of the movie, because if the revenge didn't wholly come from within Peter Parker then he wasn't fighting his own demons and his personal transformation is less significant. A self vs. self story is diluted by turning one of those "selfs" into an "other" and in that way Venom actually detracts pretty heavily from the main storyline IMO. Both movies could have been about 1:45 instead of one 2:30 movie (though to be fair the movie didn't feel too long to me) that really felt like two seperate movies spliced together and I think that each of those movies would have been better than this one.

* This theme is really different from the other revenge theme, so the conflict of the two themes in the movie makes it harder for either of them to really be developed well.

[allskulls]

Well put, kenjib.

I see what you mean about the revenge thing but it could have been done without Sandman. Maybe Harry should've killed Mary Jane. Then Gwen could have had a reason to be there. That would have been cool

I just think Venom would have been better if he was introduced at the end of the movie. His character could have been developed throughout the movie as a side story to the main storyline. Eddie and the suit needed to develop more of a hatred for Peter to make Venom. Then a whole new movie dedicated to Venom would work well. They wouldn't need to have a Spidey/Venom encounter until a third of the way into the film.

Of course, introducing Venom late in part 3 would mean the promos would have to keep from showing him at all. Then we would have had a real surprise in the movie. The way it ended gave too much of a sense of closure (besides the relationship turmoil). I don't want a box at the bottom of the page that reads "the end". I want the last panel to have a menacing character in the shadows saying, "We will kill Peter!"

[MKSentinel]

I think part of the problems with comic book movies is a desire to try and please all the fans in a limited time allowed. This is why the first movie usually has a manageable number of villians and heroes (Xmen, Spiderman, Batman [original]). When the sequel comes they try to squeeze more in. The movie is still good but has MORE. Then comes the third movie which is usually the "will there be another one?" film in which they try to squeeze in the remainder.

Look how much was added to the last of the original Batman line, XMen Last Stand and now, Spiderman.

Part of this is because people expect MORE, not more of the same when they go see a sequel, which is sad (here's hoping Dark Knight is more of the same!!!) if the original was good. The same could almost be said of the new Star Wars trilogy (though not really the older films).

Another odd reality is that this tendency to cram usually makes for diappointed fans and in fact does the OPPOSITE of what was intended.

Note to Super Hero film directors...more of the same is better than MORE! Trust me.

Adam

[Agent Minivann]

I think the biggest problem with comic book movies is the depth of the source material. Stories in the comics can span 12+ issues. The symbiote first showed up how long before Venom showed up? Years. Then there is the problem of comic writers retelling the same story so much (and adding, enhancing, and even screwing up) that it becomes a bloated. Also throw in the multiple iterations of the same character (ultimate, classic, and others). Given that there is so much to base the movie on, I think that it is harder to make a great comic book adaptation than it is to make a great novel adaptation.

I've seen at least three versions of the Phoenix story: The original comic, the cartoon 5 (or was it 10?) part version, and X3. The comic version is classic. The cartoon one was pretty good, but it was also more akin to the comic experience (the characters are already introduced, so there is more time to focus on the story. The movie one was horrible (it should have been done over two movies, nevermind all the things they got wrong). There are so many good stories in comics that are tempting for movie makers, but anything more than a 3-4 issue story gets really tough to pull off and do justice.

So I have to look at this with low expectations, but the base material is so rich that I shouldn't have to.

[ej]

No, the REAL problem, which is what happened to X3, is that the fans go into the movie EXPECTING certain things to happen, so if their checklist is not met then they're *****.

There are some who WANTED the Shi-Ar to appear. There are some who WANTED Jean to destroy a far-away star killing billions. There are some who WANTED H.E.R.B.I.E. to make an appearance in the FF movie. There are some who WANTED Lex to don his purple battlesuit in SR. And by Crom they didn't have those things then the movie was The. Worst. Evar.