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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #49  
Old November 30th, 2018, 08:44 PM
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Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)

In classic: Dwarves > Romans > Chasers

The bonding options for the dwarves are great, even if few. Potentially 6 attacks per turn (with Mogrim) really push them up imo. The base defense of 3 is good too. Helps them hold glyphs just a hair better (something romans have to give up bodies to do effectively), and they love any bonuses they can get (especially move and defense).

I don’t have tons of experience with Romans, but I know they pretty much need to tank 100 points into Marcus to be an effective fighting force. Also, Zelrig exists to blow up their Shield Walls.

And I have even less experience with the Chasers, but I’m pretty certain 2 Defense isn’t good for a 3 man melee squad. Nerak helps, but he can still be squishy. Warhulk bonding is nice though. He’s a monster.

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Last edited by flameslayer93; November 30th, 2018 at 08:45 PM. Reason: But then again, I like to compare TSA to Stingers, so maybe I’m nuts.
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  #50  
Old December 1st, 2018, 01:15 AM
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Ordering

Both the Chasers and Romans get MBS which is huge for them. I feel like Romans have slightly better bonding choices, but Chasers are better as a unit even with one less figure. Dwerrow are good, but don't have bonding range and that to me keeps them just a step behind although I'd rather have them against greenscales or Qs.

~Dysole, who could probably be convinced of other positions
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  #51  
Old December 1st, 2018, 01:41 AM
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Re: Ordering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
Both the Chasers and Romans get MBS which is huge for them. I feel like Romans have slightly better bonding choices, but Chasers are better as a unit even with one less figure. Dwerrow are good, but don't have bonding range and that to me keeps them just a step behind although I'd rather have them against greenscales or Qs.

~Dysole, who could probably be convinced of other positions
Mogrimm's not directly range, but he does have Commander's Strike... which is a ranged d20 power. It's outclassed by MBS sure, but it's still something. And something is better than nothing. *cough* Armoc Vipers *cough*

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  #52  
Old December 1st, 2018, 01:45 AM
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Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)

Dwarves are way better than both Romans and Chasers. Id put them above greenscales every time as well, not even close in my opinion.

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  #53  
Old December 2nd, 2018, 05:12 PM
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Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (Update: 11/26/18)

I love the playstyle of the Deathchasers and Romans and wouldn't take Dwarves to a tournament but I can concede that Dwarves might be better against the meta. It's hard to theoryscape the differences in overall power level between these three squads when they're so subtle and they share some of their main bonders
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  #54  
Old December 3rd, 2018, 04:50 AM
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Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (October 2018)

Dwarves are quite good, especially in more limited start zone formats and/or include the Healer glyph, being that will encourage more large/huge figures to be played. But, I worry at times their strength into cookie cutter range swarms and if they can manage those matchups on their own. In contrast, Dwarves are more flexible than the other two in army building, you can certainly add tools to better yourself in those matchups, as well as add a few squads of dwarves to another base of an army. I think their power goes up to 9 in large/huge matchups, which are more common nowadays, but might drop to a low 8 when you're running a lot of them into things like Mass, Krav, AE, Kaemon, etc. But again, you don't have to play all / a ton of dwarves to be effective, so I'm leaning towards the former when doing an average. Should they be at the top of Tier 8?

One thing they have going for them too, is they're actually good against the Hydra, which not many things are and Hydras are very common. Especially Dwarves w/ Mogrimm.

Greenscales have the edge on the Axegrinders in power in my mind because they work with all dragons, and there's an incredible amount of powerful builds you can do with that. You can run mostly Greenscales (usually +Raelin), and you can also run Greenscales x2 + a Dragon and then add
whatever else you want for the other half of your army. With lower hex/figure counts and the Healer glyph present they become more likable as well. The flying Dragon makes the builds less map dependent (in most cases) and, in addition, makes some maps incredibly favorable for them.

Interesting you like the Dwarves better than the Greenscales Matthias. I can't see the Greenscales at Tier 8 but I can more see the Dwarves at the bottom of Tier 9, considering their Hydra matchup perk. Probably at the top of Tier 8, I think. I do think they're close in power to the Deathcasers and Romans. Maybe Mogrimm should be bumped? He's very very good.

But the Hydra is such a menacing figure to all melee (and pretty much everything lol), so their strength into it is very significant.
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  #55  
Old December 3rd, 2018, 04:47 PM
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Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (Update: 11/26/18)

I felt like I had already done this before, and lo and behold I had...

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=30235


I hadn't looked at it in years. I think the only thing I would change is switch the spiders with the grubs.

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  #56  
Old December 4th, 2018, 03:54 PM
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Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (Update: 11/26/18)

You really think Grubs are C? Maybe it's just the Raelin-Krav builds that Nagrubs often prompt but I think they've had a lot of tournament success
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  #57  
Old December 4th, 2018, 06:56 PM
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Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (Update: 11/26/18)

Personally, I think it's this:

Knights > Heavies > Greenscales > | Axegrinders > Romans > Deathchasers > | Nagrubs > | Arrows > Blades > Sacred Band > Mohicans > | Capuans > MacDirks > | Spiders > | Armocs > Deathknights > Badru | > *Hive > | Groks

The tier breaks are '|'. Within each break is close in power, more debatable which units are better than which.

*Hive is weird. I've posted a lot why I rate it low, mostly because I feel it's just a liability. In situations/maps where it works, it's obviously higher but I feel like there's no reason to take it over 160pt. of more marro squads. A lot of the times you just get screwed over from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias Maccabeus View Post
I felt like I had already done this before, and lo and behold I had...

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=30235


I hadn't looked at it in years. I think the only thing I would change is switch the spiders with the grubs.
MacDirks should've been higher
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  #58  
Old December 4th, 2018, 07:02 PM
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Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (Update: 11/26/18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegietarian18 View Post
You really think Grubs are C? Maybe it's just the Raelin-Krav builds that Nagrubs often prompt but I think they've had a lot of tournament success
Grubs are way better than C. They're 7th strongest in my opinion.
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  #59  
Old December 4th, 2018, 07:05 PM
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Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (Update: 11/26/18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegietarian18 View Post
You really think Grubs are C? Maybe it's just the Raelin-Krav builds that Nagrubs often prompt but I think they've had a lot of tournament success
When I sit down against somebody with grubs in their army and Im playing something half decent, Im walking out with a win.

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  #60  
Old December 4th, 2018, 11:33 PM
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Re: Cleon's Unit Tier List (Update: 11/26/18)

Nah TKN/Grubs is a solid army, especially with range-counter (Krav, PKs). It can have a hard time on certain maps but I think most of the time it's fine.
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