The Book of Casual Rule: Throwing Destructible Objects

[quozl]

The Heroes have recently voted to revise the throwing rules to the following:

All figures with the Super Strength special power gain the following special power:

THROW SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack Special.
Choose an unoccupied small, medium, large, or huge Destructible Object adjacent to this figure. Before rolling attack dice for this special attack, you must place the chosen Destructible Object adjacent to the defending figure. After using this special attack, the Destructible Object receives one wound for each skull you rolled.

The Range and Attack numbers for this special attack are based on the size of the Destructible Object:
Small: Range 5. Attack 2.
Medium: Range 4. Attack 3.
Large: Range 3. Attack 4.
Huge: Range 2. Attack 5.

[quozl]

SP updated with a couple of notes taken from the old rules.

[A3n]

so now the thrown DO isn't an extra attack? That kinda takes the fun away from using the DOs.

[IAmBatman]

I've been largely staying out of it since I don't have a vote, but I'm also not the biggest fan of such a significant change, especially without testing. But since the group has largely abandoned interest in casual rules anyway, not sure there's much interest in doing things like testing or making sure we get these really right.

If anything, if we're not going to support them or test them to make sure they feel right, I kind of feel like we should just scrap these. Anyway, not something I'm passionate about one way or another, so I'll go back to keeping out of it.

[tcglkn]

Originally Posted by Alexandros

Hi there! I've attached my playtest below. Please note that this is only my second playtest and I'd greatly appreciate any constructive criticism you may have. I've taken the liberty of bolding and color coding chunks of the game where objects really came in to play or were thrown for your convenience.

Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Toyhandle Illuminati (Avengers Beast, Avengers Dr. Strange, Avengers Black Panther, Avengers Iron Man) 1000 vs Green Lantern Corps (Kilowog, Hal Jordan, Jon Stewart) 1000
Four parked cars just outside center of the map

Spoiler Alert!

R1T1 Iron Man moves to the center of the map. BP follows him. Kilowog gets a few spaces away and takes a shot at Iron Man, dealing no wounds.
R1T2 Doctor Strange trails Iron Man, takes a shot on Kilowog, deals no wounds. Black Panther shoots Kilowog, no wounds. Hal Jordan shoots Iron Man, deals no wounds.
R1T3 Beast comes closer to the center. T'Challa bases Kilowog and punches him. No wounds. John enters the fray and hangs out with Kilowog, takes a shot against Beast. Beast takes two wounds.
R2T1 Avengers win initiative. Doctor Strange moves the whole crew one space, putting Iron Man next to Beast. Doctor Strange shoots Hal, no wounds. Black Panther hits Kilowog, no wounds. Kilowog attacks T'Challa, deals one wound, is forced next to Strange.
R2T2 Iron Man shoots Kilowog for two wounds, then Black Panther attacks Kilowog. No wounds. Hal Jordan moves between BP and Beast. BP auto wounds him. He attacks Beast, dealing two wounds. Hal rolls for the second attack, and fails. Beast moves towards one of the parked cars.
R2T3 Beast throws the parked car at Hal Jordan. No wounds on Hal. Two on the car. BP attacks Hal for no wounds. John moves adjacent to Kilowog, Beast, and Dr. Strange. Takes two auto wounds. Punches Beast and destroys him.
R3T1 GLs win initiative. Kilowog takes the first turn and removes a battery marker. Kilowog attacks BP for one wound, BP moves Kilowog near Strange but doesn't auto wound. Dr. Strange shifts the Avengers one space, then punches Kilowog for one wound.
R3T2 Hal Jordan punches Iron Man, no wounds. Iron Man punches Hal for no wounds, and rolls an unblockable attack die against Kilowog. No damage.
R3T3 Kilowog bases BP. Doctor Strange fails the LEA. BP auto wounds him. Kilowog deals no wounds but BP doesn't roll a blank. Doctor Strange melees John Stewart for two wounds, destroying him.
R4T1 Doctor Strange rerolls initiative, removes one wound from IM. Tony moves and punches Kilowog, destroying him. BP moves and attacks Hal. For one wound. Hal punches Wakanda's king, deals one wound, is moved adjacent to Strange. No BP auto wound.
R4T2 Strange punches Hal, destroying him.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Illuminati
Iron Man: 4 Life
Doctor Strange: 6 Life
Black Panther 2 life.
Parked car: 4
Parked car: 4
Parked car: 4
Parked car (thrown): 2

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Teen Titans (Nightwing, Raven, Starfire, Red Robin [with Smoke Pellets], Superboy) vs Fantastic Four (Future Foundation Spider-Man, The Thing, Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman)
Two parked cars and two T-Spheres just outside of center of the map.

Spoiler Alert!

R1T1 F4 wins initiative. Sue and Reed move in. Nightwing reveals an order marker. Superboy camps with the parked car. Red Robin joins him. Nightwing moves onto the elevation near the center.
R1T2 Pete and Ben move up. Pete shoots Nightwing before Ben moves, and would deal 3 wounds, but Superboy swoops in and takes a wound. Mr. Fantastic comes up and shoots Nightwing, for no wounds. Starfire takes a swim and shoots Peter. Doesn't crack his eleven defense. Pete moves 2, brings Susan onto elevation. Starfire takes the second shot. No wounds.
R1T3 Ben moves next to a T-Sphere, targets Red Robin in such a way that Starfire is also adjacent to the Sphere. Red Robin defends, but the Sphere deals a wound to both characters. Spider-Man shoots Starfire, but Superboy swoops in to take one wound. Reed punches Nightwing, no wounds. Raven shoots Ben, no wounds.
R2T1 F4 wins initiative. Peter shoots Starfire, no wounds. Reed punches Nightwing for no wounds. Superboy moves up to Sue, hits for one. Red Robin punches Thing, no wounds. Nightwing punches Reed, no wounds.
R2T2 Peter moves, throws the T-Sphere at Raven, placing adjacent to Starfire as well. Wounds Raven in the attack, then Raven and Starfire with the T-Sphere ability. Thing punches Red Robin, who uses his glyph to peace out closer to Sue. Reed punches Nightwing, no wounds. Raven moves closer, transfers a wound to Sue.
R2T3 Thing moves adjacent to Red Robin. Raven fails her LEA. Thing attacks RR, no wounds. Reed punches Nightwing. Nightwing takes one wound. Starfire bases IW and Thing. for three attacks. Destroys Sue on the first hit. Attacks Thing for the next two. No wounds on the first. Three on the second.
R3T1 Titans win initiative. Starfire punches Thing, one wound. Again, no wounds. Again, two wounds, destroys Thing. Supes flies in, punches, Peter. One wound. Dick punches Reed. Peter attacks Starfire. No wounds. Reed attacks Starfire. Superboy swoops in, takes the wound.
R3T2 Raven moves next to Peter and RR, transfers a wound to Peter. Spider-Man attacks Starfire, no wounds. Reed follows suit, no wounds.
R3T3 Superboy moves closer to Pete, punches, no wounds. Pete punches Starfire, no wounds. Reed does too, two wounds.
R4T1 Starfire punches Reed. One wound. Pete moves Reed out of the way. Starfire shoots Pete for two. Pete moves out of the way. Starfire can't select a target for the third attack. Superboy destroys Spider-Man. Nightwing punches Reed. Deals one wound. Mr. Fantastic rubber walks and punches Nightwing. No wounds.
R4T2 Red Robin punches Reed, deals one wound. Reed punches Nightwing.
R4T3 RR punches Reed for one.
R5T1 Reed punches Nightwing no wounds. Starfire bases Reed. Attacks for no wounds. Again deals one wound, destroys Reed.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Teen Titans
Starfire 1
Red Robin 3
Raven 5
Superboy 2
Nightwing 3
Parked Car 4
Parked Car 4
(both T-Spheres destroyed)

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: In general, I think that certain small objects with special powers are fairly powerful here, and large objects don't feel very good at all. I think you could up the attack numbers on large and huge objects.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: It definitely seems like some objects are way better under these rules than others. The T-Spheres especially seemed highly impactful and if F4 got to them first I think they could have gotten Raven off the board early and made this a very different game. The large objects generally seem kind of underpowered here without anything extra going on- most times it's better for an SS character to base the person they want to hit and melee them, or the SS character already has range so it's moot point. I think one of the more interesting things you can do here is hex denial- I would have liked to get to a point where The Thing and Spider-Man could have monopolized the elevated spaces in the middle of Conflict Chernobyl by planting a car up there after a throw but it didn't pan out that way and it does seem kind of niche. It would also be interesting to maybe go back and errata things like the Parked Car to interact with being thrown but I understand why that would have already been done if it was going to be done. As is, I think the biggest thing large objects can do is deny part of the map or help certain super strength characters "zone" their opponent. I could imagine Beast defending against an attack, moving 3 spaces towards a car, throwing the car at an opposing figure, having Black Panther base that opposing figure then knock them back towards Beast for a dagger roll, etc. I think this is a little bit of a flavor miss, because it disincentivizes your Hulk-style characters just picking up a street light and hitting you with it as opposed to just hitting you with your fist.

Thanks, that Green really hurts the eyes so I changed it to blue. Overall the tests look good. I agree that some characters with appreciate this more than others, I'd keep in mind that this gives characters like Hulk both a Special Attack to bypass certain powers and also range if he can't quite (or doesn't want to) engage a character.

Also in the future when you are testing something that is already public, just post the results in that thread.

[IAmBatman]

Cool. Nice progress.

[japes]

@Alexandros

Very well done and nice insights. Don't be shy. nice work.

[tcglkn]

Someone else removed these from the playtesting signup thread, I was planning on two tests. Were we good with only one set of tests here?

[IAmBatman]

My bad. Pretty sure I did that instead of the Street Lights when I was trying to take down the Street Lights for you. Probably worth reposting and trying to get one more set. Apologies.

[Lord Pyre]

Looking good so far. Definitely still want at least one more test though.

Or DID we have a second test already and Bats deleted that too?

[tcglkn]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

Or DID we have a second test already and Bats deleted that too?

Unsure, but blaming Bats IS my favorite thing to do around here.

[IAmBatman]

We did not.