Raleigh, NC Tourney: Son of The Returnening

[Granite-M]

"The time has come," Granite-M said,
"To talk of many things:
Of dice--and doggins--and sealing-wax--
Of Minions--with their wings--
And why the Sea is Molten hot--
And whether Marro have stings."

It's that time again-- the time when the ancient stirrings of blood lust have begun to awaken in the dark depths of our souls and called us back to battle!

When: January, Saturday the 17th
Where: Amazing Tales, off of Avent Ferry Road.
Format: Swiss-style, 4 rounds, with the 4th split in twain-- lower-ranked players first, then the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th ranked players matched to allow others to watch to championship matches.
Armies: 540 Points, pre-made, no Marvel / customs
Entry Fee: $7

Official Tournament Card Here

Confirmed Attendees:

-Granite-M (organizer)
-Boozehammer
-HSisforcoolkids (and Jason)
-JoutnFAN77
-obsidianguard
-celtic warrior
-sir hendricks (and a friend, and brother)
-King's Knight (and brother)
-d3athkiller
-J-Unit94
-EagleOne
-Oliver Upshaw
-Bunjee
-elstree
-myrealnameisjeff
-myrealnameisjon

Maps:

-Ticalla Sunrise (built by Granite-M)
-Flash Fire (built by Granite-M)
-Highways and Dieways (built by Oliver Upshaw)
-Badru Valley (built by myrealnameisejff)
-Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh (built by HSisforcoolkids)
-Arctic Divide (built by King's Knight)
-Road Rampage (built by King's Knight)
-Swamp Thing (built by JoutnFAN77)
-Turret Rocks (built by Boozehammer)

STILL UNCLAIMED MAPS:

-Fire Isles



+Rep for map builders! Volunteer now!

[Granite-M]

A cleaner version of the match board:



And the final tournament results:

Player Name-------Win/Loss---Losing Points---SoS---Win %
Bunjee--------------4/0------------0---------10-----100%
Boozehammer-------3/1-----------474---------8------75%
Timothy-------------3/1----------320--------10------75%
HSisforcoolkids------3/1-----------245---------9------75%
myrealnameisjon-----3/1----------226---------9-------75%
Jason B.------------3/1-----------146---------7-------75%
Zander-------------2/2-----------812---------8-------50%
celtic warrior-------2/2------------716---------6-------50%
J-Unit94------------2/2-----------688---------7-------50%
Granite-M-----------2/2-----------537--------10-------50%
Oliver Upshaw-------2/2-----------450---------9-------50%
obsidianGuard-------2/2-----------435---------7-------50%
myrealnameisjeff----1/3-----------1414--------9-------25%
Justin P.------------1/3-----------1069--------7-------25%
King's Knight--------1/3-----------868---------5--------25%
Sir Hendricks--------1/3-----------775---------6-------25%
JoutnFAN77---------1/3-----------580--------10-------25%
Dana B.-------------0/4-----------1205--------7-------0%

[Granite-M]

Combined Win / Loss and Strength of Score Records from the Oct. 2008 NHSD Tournament and the Aug. '08 Returnening (unfortunately, we do not have most players' losing points from the August tournament):

Name-------Win / Loss---Losing Points---SoS---Win %
Griffin----------5/3----------510---------11-----63%
DarkBladeCB----5/3----------123.3-------14-----63%
Altron_ZERO----5/2----------293---------16-----71%
Granite-M------5/2----------251.2-------16-----71%
J-Unit94 -------4/0--------- ( ? )---------9-----100%
Elstree---------3/1----------440---------10-----75%
EagleOne -------3/1---------( ? )---------9-----75%
NC_Hero--------3/1----------197---------8-----75%
Hogg-----------2/2----------600---------12-----50%
Boozehammer---2/2----------( ? )--------11-----50%
obsidianGuard---2/2----------(370)--------6-----50%
Shef------------2/2----------302---------7-----50%
Bunjee----------1/3----------988.3--------9-----25%
Alex C.----------1/3---------- 612---------7-----25%
MagnumMike-----1/3----------548---------9-----25%
Wargamer56-----1/2----------( ? )---------9-----33%
JoutnFAN77 -----0/4----------702---------8------0%
Brandon----------0/4----------646---------7-----0%

Red = Went to the first tourney only, Blue = Went to second tourney only, Purple = Went to both tournaments.

[NC_Hero]

I'd like to have a double elimination instead of a Swiss style tournament.

Swiss style does not save you any time unless you are running a very large tournament. Also, it can also cause some of the scoring/seeding conficts that arose during NHSD.

A double elimination tournament with 8-16 participants can be over in 4-6 hours (assuming an hour for each match). That's the same time it would take to run a comparable swiss tournament. If we have over 16 participants, then swiss style would be a better option.

It's simple, the person with the best record wins and, if you have one bad match, you still have a chance to climb the losers bracket to the final so, you can STILL win the tournament ...even if you have to play J-UNIT your first game.


I'd also like to suggest chess clocks. An imbalance can occur if one player is taking too much time to move or, intentionally stalling for a points victory. Chess clocks with 25min for each side would eliminate that problem and probably help speed up the games.

NC Heroscapers what do you think?

-NC_Hero

[Griffin]

OK, assuming that we are going to have your elimination style tournament NC_Hero, how exactly does it work? You play until you are eliminated twice? And how do you determine split decisions? Does the person with the better score trump the person who is under him? And how does the scoring work anyway? Is it on the same terms as the previous tournament with wins and loosing points?

[Granite-M]

I'm not dropping the hammer on this idea, but there is an issue that arose from this play style at our first Triangle tournament. The problem was that after only two games, there were some people who knew that they weren't going to be in the top 3 (prize-winning) positions at the end of the day. Several of these folks left after that, and it seemed as though they were fairly dejected, especially as at least one of them had come from over an hour and a half away.

The advantage that I see in the Swiss system is that, even if you lose your first two matches, you can still have a benefit from actually sticking around for the last two matches. It may not give you the classic bracket system we're all familiar with from sports tournaments, but if you reseed it properly, you will have the top ranked winning players playing each other at the end of the day.

One other thing I'd like to do this time around is to have a door prize for whoever traveled the furthest to get to the tournament without winning anything. It always kills me when someone travels a great distance, coming from Fayetteville or Virginia or whatever, only to wash out and go home empty-handed. If we do this, it might also encourage people to come from further away, and boost our attendance numbers a bit.

[NC_Hero]

Duplicate Post

[NC_Hero]

Originally Posted by Griffin

OK, assuming that we are going to have your elimination style tournament NC_Hero, how exactly does it work? See example below.

You play until you are eliminated twice? Yes

And how do you determine split decisions? There are no split decisions. Every game ends in a win or loss by anhialation or points. No point totals are carried winners/losers are determined by their W/L record.

Example: (because I cannot draw a more personalized one here)

The winner is 6-0
Second place is 5-2

The winner of the loser's bracket has to play an extra game so, the winner gets a one hour break before the final.

Third Place is 3-2

Once you have two losses, you are out. How simple is that? The whole thing should take 6-7 hours for 16 people.





Here are the pros and cons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-...#Pros_and_cons
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[NC_Hero]

Originally Posted by Granite-M

I'm not dropping the hammer on this idea, but there is an issue that arose from this play style at our first Triangle tournament. The problem was that after only two games, there were some people who knew that they weren't going to be in the top 3 (prize-winning) positions at the end of the day. Several of these folks left after that, and it seemed as though they were fairly dejected, especially as at least one of them had come from over an hour and a half away.

AHA! I was just thinking the EXACT same thing. Well think of it this way...in a double elimination tournament, everyone would be guaranteed two hours of play. Most players would get 3-5 hours worth of tournament play. The winners are playing 6 hours with the 6-0 person getting an hour break before the final match.

So, what if there was another game. That started after the 1-2 group was knocked out. Last tournament we ran the Arena after the regular tournament. This time, lets run it after the third round (hour 3).

The 0-2 players have an hour break and then the 1-2 players can join them for a team game or some other form of HS game with prizes. Maybe this could even be a 2v2 tournament? If we did have 16 players, this pool of players would be eight. Another game or scenario would keep these people playing for another 1-3 hours. So, their playtime would be ~5-6 hours, just like everyone else. AND, they could win a prize in the consolation event.

So, does anyone have consolation event ideas? 2v2 matches? Colliseum? Huge 4v4 war map?

I was thinking about that quest card version of Heroscape: I'll post the details after I have a chance to look over the cards.

What do you think?

-NC_Hero

[Granite-M]

Another issue that I'd point out that is demonstrated from that graph is that as the day goes on, you have fewer and fewer matches, as well as having to wait for earlier matches to get resolved before you can move on to the next round of play. At times, you've got the entire tournament waiting for an entire round of play to just resolve one match between two players, for instance during games M and N. That's a pretty serious bottleneck right there.

I'd like to know people's feelings on the benefit of running the tournament this way, as opposed to the Swiss style.

[NC_Hero]

Originally Posted by Granite-M

Another issue that I'd point out that is demonstrated from that graph is that as the day goes on, you have fewer and fewer matches, as well as having to wait for earlier matches to get resolved before you can move on to the next round of play. At times, you've got the entire tournament waiting for an entire round of play to just resolve one match between two players, for instance during games M and N. That's a pretty serious bottleneck right there.

I'd like to know people's feelings on the benefit of running the tournament this way, as opposed to the Swiss style.

OOPS, you are right! There are two matches that need to be resolved before the final can happen so, there is a two hour delay. I miscalculated. I thought the delay was only one hour.

The only reason I am interested in changing the format is that in the last tournament EVERYONE was 3-1 and it came down to points. I felt like the true tournament winner could have been ANYONE with a 3-1 record. The decision seemed kind of arbitrary.

If we decide to stick with the swiss tournament rules, we definitely need more rounds so a better pattern will emerge. And, maybe revisit the way that Win/Loss points are calculated.

-NC_Hero

[Granite-M]

Originally Posted by NC_Hero

The only reason I am interested in changing the format is that in the last tournament EVERYONE was 3-1 and it came down to points. I felt like the true tournament winner could have been ANYONE with a 3-1 record. The decision seemed kind of arbitrary.

If we decide to stick with the swiss tournament rules, we definitely need more rounds so a better pattern will emerge.

-NC_Hero

I totally agree with that. If people can commit to a slightly longer day, I would love to get a couple more rounds in and have some more definitive final matches and score tallies.