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  #13  
Old September 15th, 2021, 06:46 PM
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Re: The Book of Nick Fury (MCU) - Breathing

I think this design is fine, I just wanted to put out my initial concern. If this is the way you wanna go, Iím fine with it.
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  #14  
Old September 15th, 2021, 06:49 PM
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Re: The Book of Nick Fury (MCU) - Breathing

Donít get me wrong: double attack isnít a sacred cow here. Iím not even particularly arguing for keeping it. Just trying to establish the type of replacement Iíd want.

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  #15  
Old September 15th, 2021, 08:02 PM
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Re: The Book of Nick Fury (MCU) - Breathing

I’d suggest the Pep Talk approach over Double Attack, as it feels more like Fury to have contingencies and motivate his soldiers so to speak, as that happens a few times in the movies and in the comics. Him being able to repurpose their Avenger Markers after they fall to call someone else to action or use it to burn feels more accurate here than him going guns blazing with Cap. The OM save will also work quite well with all the hubs in the faction, as well as Widow who only retrieves them from the fallen figure(which can be a bummer if they weren’t the ones with the markers thus not giving her her bonus).

And fwiw, he already will work great with Cap I, so I don’t think adding extra emphasis is necessary.

Adding Agents in is something I was also contemplating so good call there.
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  #16  
Old September 15th, 2021, 08:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Nick Fury (MCU) - Breathing

I considered Pep Talk when you brought it up in LCW but went away from it because I don't love him having three passive/behind the scenes powers. I'd prefer a third power to give him a reason to be activated and in the action.

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  #17  
Old September 15th, 2021, 08:25 PM
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Re: The Book of Nick Fury (MCU) - Breathing

I guess that’s where I’m not sure I understand the goal here other than the markers bit. MCU Fury and Nick Fury Jr.(Sam Fury), are typically behind the scenes orchestrators/directors not unlike an Oracle or Lex etc. I feel start zone dude who keeps the team optimal is the way to go.

But, that’s just my analysis on the character and design’s role in the faction. I certainly digress though as to avoid pushing my stance on it if that’s not what you’re feeling.
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  #18  
Old September 15th, 2021, 08:54 PM
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Re: The Book of Nick Fury (MCU) - Breathing

Would an attack-y power track better if it felt more contingency flavored?

I think Nick Fury getting in the mix feels thematically right, but I imagine that more in a "Cap is down, this chump from the other team thinks he can fight me, but I've got an ace up my sleeve" context versus a sort of more proactive "rolling out alongside Cap with a Cap-friendly power" thing.
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  #19  
Old September 15th, 2021, 08:54 PM
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Re: The Book of Nick Fury (MCU) - Breathing

I definitely understand and appreciate the theme of his being a behind the scenes character. I don't think "guns ablazing" is the right approach for him and if that's what double attack is feeling like for folks, definitely not the direction we should go.

I guess I just see him as a bit more of an active participant in battles than Oracle typically is and I'm not sure start zone camping and being completely passive feels right either.

Maybe the ability to activate him with his Avenger Marker burns in the first power is enough for that?

He definitely talks to heroes and villains a lot in the movies. Sometimes they're pep talks, sometimes they're coercion, sometimes they're negotiation, sometimes manipulation. I'm a bit iffy on rearranging Order Markers and Avenger Markers really *feeling* like a pep talk either.

I dunno. I feel like I need to think on it more in terms of what his actual role should be. But three fully passive powers doesn't seem quite right to me.

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  #20  
Old September 15th, 2021, 08:55 PM
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Re: The Book of Nick Fury (MCU) - Breathing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Would an attack-y power track better if it felt more contingency flavored?

I think Nick Fury getting in the mix feels thematically right, but I imagine that more in a "Cap is down, this chump from the other team thinks he can fight me, but I've got an ace up my sleeve" context versus a sort of more proactive "rolling out alongside Cap with a Cap-friendly power" thing.
Yes! Thank you for articulating what I was trying to get at so well.

The one factional thing to watch out for is that Black Widow has the Contingency market fairly covered, so figuring out how exactly to do that could be challenging.

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  #21  
Old September 15th, 2021, 09:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Nick Fury (MCU) - Breathing

Just spitballing some theme and mechanic ideas here. Nick could:
- Rally the Avengers to his location (some sort of movement bonding). This would set up Covert Initiative.
- Could have a high risk high reward thing. Like let Nick subtract so many from your initiative one round then add the same number to your initiative next round.
- Maybe add a space restriction to either Avenger Assets or Covert Initiative. That forces Nick to be in the mix, and would synergize well with a defensive power like Evasive Strike or something similar.

Here's another idea. Gives Nick a reason to take a turn every round since it's free:
Quote:
AVENGER ASSETS
Anytime you would place a white Avenger Marker on another card, you may place that marker here instead. Once per round, before taking a turn with a figure you control that is in clear sight of Nick Fury, you may remove an Avenger Marker from this card to either move or attack with Nick Fury and another figure you control that is an Agent or has an Avenger Marker on its card.
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  #22  
Old September 15th, 2021, 09:42 PM
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Re: The Book of Nick Fury (MCU) - Breathing

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Would an attack-y power track better if it felt more contingency flavored?

I think Nick Fury getting in the mix feels thematically right, but I imagine that more in a "Cap is down, this chump from the other team thinks he can fight me, but I've got an ace up my sleeve" context versus a sort of more proactive "rolling out alongside Cap with a Cap-friendly power" thing.
Yes! Thank you for articulating what I was trying to get at so well.

The one factional thing to watch out for is that Black Widow has the Contingency market fairly covered, so figuring out how exactly to do that could be challenging.
Black Widow and Wolverine both can recover Order Markers, yes, but both only recover the ones from the destroyed figure. The issue I've run into with Black Widow, and why she's not a go-to draft for me personally, is that I have noticed more often than not her ability leads to disappointment on my end.

Here's why:
Quote:
AVENGERS CONTINGENCY
At the start of the game, you may choose 1 other Unique Hero you control and place a white Avenger Marker on its card. When a Unique Hero you control that is an Agent or that has an Avenger Marker on its card is destroyed by an enemy figure, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers from that card and place them on this card. For the rest of the round, after revealing an Order Marker on this card, before taking a turn with Black Widow, you may take a turn with one other Unique Hero you control that is an Agent or that has an Avenger Marker on its card, and you may not take any additional turns with other figures you control.
She can only recover Order Markers from the destroyed figure. So if the enemy kills someone with 1 Order Marker(possibly already revealed/used), or no Order Markers, that power will ultimately not trigger.

Then the 2nd part of that, it's a limited time boost, reliant on the Order Markers being on her card to capitalize. So if you lost a figure that didn't have the Markers, if Widow doesn't have Markers already, you're SOL on any sort of retaliation advantage for them destroying that figure. Even if that figure or she did have the Markers, it's also reliant on when the figure was destroyed to determine how much she can capitalize on that loss, by which turn it happened on since it only lasts 0-3 more turns.

Now, compare that to:
Quote:
RALLY OUTSIDERS
When a Unique Hero you control is destroyed by an enemy figure, you may immediately place any unrevealed Order Markers on any of your Army Cards on this card. For the remainder of the round, after revealing a numbered Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Geo-Force, you may immediately choose and take a turn with up to two other Unique Interloper Heroes you control.
Geo can take all OMs in this situation, guaranteeing you the bonus. The bonus lasts the same length of time, so they are equal in that risk. The bonus nets you 2 additional turns instead of 1.

I've found it hard to capitalize when using Widow, thus I haven't felt like she's worth taking for that power. She's got solid offensive power, so that's definitely where she shines, and I've had good success there, but I don't find her Contingency + Bonding to be a shining aspect of the design.

Wolverine's is similarly limited, but his avoids the bonding false hopes in favor of him just dealing out some more punishment on the spot if you kill his buddies.

All this is to say, I don't think that market is monopolized in the faction as of yet. Not only that, Fury would help Widow, as he can guarantee any Markers go to her to make best use of her power, as well as a restructuring that could see Cap get a revealed OM in a pinch if you wanted to use that turn elsewhere in a heated pivotal moment.

As for not seeing it as a Pep Talk thematically. Here's how I see it:

A figure you control is destroyed. People are down and defeated. He moves OMs around. That gets that person back into the fight, or puts the emphasis on your strongest option if the Marker wasn't on them before, to maximize retaliation. For the Avenger Marker bit, let's say you didn't have enough Markers in your army, maybe a team game or something. Someone gets taken out, Fury recruits someone else with that Marker, talking them into standing up for the fallen. Or he just takes the Marker for himself, and uses it to burn to make the team better through his words, using the fallen person(their marker to represent them) as his driving factor much like Coulson's demise with his bloody Cap cards in the first movie. That was my logic there.
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  #23  
Old September 15th, 2021, 10:46 PM
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Re: The Book of Nick Fury (MCU) - Breathing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
As for not seeing it as a Pep Talk thematically. Here's how I see it:

A figure you control is destroyed. People are down and defeated. He moves OMs around. That gets that person back into the fight, or puts the emphasis on your strongest option if the Marker wasn't on them before, to maximize retaliation. For the Avenger Marker bit, let's say you didn't have enough Markers in your army, maybe a team game or something. Someone gets taken out, Fury recruits someone else with that Marker, talking them into standing up for the fallen. Or he just takes the Marker for himself, and uses it to burn to make the team better through his words, using the fallen person(their marker to represent them) as his driving factor much like Coulson's demise with his bloody Cap cards in the first movie. That was my logic there.
I see him taking Avengers Markers from fallen allies as giving him more army building options as well and not just the few figures that bring extra markers. You guys spent a lot of time developing the one marker Avengers so let them come to the party here.

I too had similar ideas to what Arkham said above. I didn't realize you were this close to running him yet or I would have brought it up earlier.

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  #24  
Old September 15th, 2021, 11:07 PM
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Re: The Book of Nick Fury (MCU) - Breathing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch-vile View Post
Just spitballing some theme and mechanic ideas here. Nick could:
- Rally the Avengers to his location (some sort of movement bonding). This would set up Covert Initiative.
- Could have a high risk high reward thing. Like let Nick subtract so many from your initiative one round then add the same number to your initiative next round.
- Maybe add a space restriction to either Avenger Assets or Covert Initiative. That forces Nick to be in the mix, and would synergize well with a defensive power like Evasive Strike or something similar.

Here's another idea. Gives Nick a reason to take a turn every round since it's free:
Quote:
AVENGER ASSETS
Anytime you would place a white Avenger Marker on another card, you may place that marker here instead. Once per round, before taking a turn with a figure you control that is in clear sight of Nick Fury, you may remove an Avenger Marker from this card to either move or attack with Nick Fury and another figure you control that is an Agent or has an Avenger Marker on its card.
Fwiw, Cap II has some solid figure movement on initiative, so I feel that already makes for a great combo with Covert Initiative without needing Fury to gain a figure movement aspect as well.

I like your suggestion on Avenger Assets. That to me works more favorably for the design that Double Attack, IMO. Avenging Agents might be a good alternative name option there.
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