Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards
Custom Units & Army Cards Fan-created HS army cards for units, glyphs, and equipment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1897  
Old October 16th, 2017, 11:43 AM
Dad_Scaper's Avatar
Dad_Scaper Dad_Scaper is offline. Isn't that smurfy?
Counting gray cells and coming up short... Also, I confess to being a fanboy.
 
Join Date: January 3, 2007
Location: MD - Baltimore
Posts: 22,522
Images: 4
Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I like them. I won't address the issue of them being hard to kill; others have addressed that.

But I have no problem with them being very slow fliers and slightly faster walkers. I agree with dok that the bonding power could be dramatically simplified without compromising theme.

I don't have any problem with "Embodiment of Stone," in that both elements are because these creatures are made of stone. The word "Embodiment" suggests an avatar-type relationship, like a "stone" elemental would be a creature that is a shard of the elemental plain of stone on earth. As I understand the traditional gargoyle, it's a thing that is stone, and not an "embodiment" of it. It's a stone creature. Which is why I had already suggested renaming the power "Stone."

I have no problem with the form or color of the minis as gargoyles, but I am curious about their size. Could we get a better comparison shot of them? I am concerned that they might just be too tiny to deliver the theme of "gargoyle."

Lots of interesting thoughts & suggestions from lots of different angles here, fellas. Good luck.

C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
Designing Customs? Help With Wurdz
= =
Reply With Quote
  #1898  
Old October 16th, 2017, 06:25 PM
Leaf_It's Avatar
Leaf_It Leaf_It is offline
 
Join Date: February 19, 2008
Location: USA - Utah
Posts: 772
Images: 4
Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I don't have a lot of time to say what I want to say here, but for now...

I have played only a little D&D/Pathfinder, and Gargoyles have never come up. I have little no concept for what they are in that lore. The ideas I was going on were that they are creatures, probably demons, that were made of, or possibly trapped in stone, and generally used as guards to protect places. Whether they were strictly good or evil wasn't really something I was too worried about, We just chose demons, because I wanted to give Valkrill more to work with, and it has some interesting synergy.

The name Embodiment of Stone has about 10 - 15 different names we were choosing from, we just thought that it sounded the coolest. Another one from that list that might work better is Stone Figure.

As for size, these guy really are small. The pose they are in really doesn't help that. They would be about 4 tiles tall if they were standing straight up. Unfortunately they are crouching in standard gargoyle fashion, so they really don't look very big, only being about 2 tiles tall by the position of their head.
Reply With Quote
  #1899  
Old October 16th, 2017, 07:21 PM
Dad_Scaper's Avatar
Dad_Scaper Dad_Scaper is offline. Isn't that smurfy?
Counting gray cells and coming up short... Also, I confess to being a fanboy.
 
Join Date: January 3, 2007
Location: MD - Baltimore
Posts: 22,522
Images: 4
Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I wasn’t talking about d&d or pathfinder gargoyles. I was talking about the creatures that look like statues attached to buildings but sometimes come to life. Made of stone. I imagine that most people picture them that way. Things made of stone, somehow animated.

C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
Designing Customs? Help With Wurdz
= =
Reply With Quote
  #1900  
Old October 17th, 2017, 06:33 AM
Leaf_It's Avatar
Leaf_It Leaf_It is offline
 
Join Date: February 19, 2008
Location: USA - Utah
Posts: 772
Images: 4
Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
I wasn’t talking about d&d or pathfinder gargoyles. I was talking about the creatures that look like statues attached to buildings but sometimes come to life. Made of stone. I imagine that most people picture them that way. Things made of stone, somehow animated.
The part about D&D and Pathfinder was more directed towards Ixe, I just didn't @ him, or quote anything.

@Ixe If we left them as demons, would it be a deal breaker for you? A big reason we chose Demons was because we wanted these to be for Valkrill, and Morgoloth didn't have any Valkrill units that Swarming Vermin worked with. The Darkprowl Thrall fills that void now, so it's not as relevant, but it was a major factor in our process.
Reply With Quote
  #1901  
Old October 17th, 2017, 06:54 AM
Ixe's Avatar
Ixe Ixe is offline
 
Join Date: August 21, 2013
Location: USA - MD - Sparks
Posts: 1,876
Ixe is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Ixe is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Ixe is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Ixe is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Ixe is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Ixe is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Ixe is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Ixe is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Ixe is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I'm not the only judge, I'm just sharing my opinion of the unit. You could try to theme them as Rock or Stone Quasits and that's why they're demons but I think you lose a lot of the resonance that way. I see what you're going for, I just don't think the pieces quite fit.

The Darkprowl Thralls don't really fill that void (partly because they really play into thrall armies). Morgoloth could easily use small demons to use both Swarming Vermin and his Demon Leadership but even that feels like a mismatch with your theme of heavy, stone gargoyles.
Reply With Quote
  #1902  
Old October 17th, 2017, 09:48 AM
Leaf_It's Avatar
Leaf_It Leaf_It is offline
 
Join Date: February 19, 2008
Location: USA - Utah
Posts: 772
Images: 4
Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixe View Post
I'm not the only judge, I'm just sharing my opinion of the unit. You could try to theme them as Rock or Stone Quasits and that's why they're demons but I think you lose a lot of the resonance that way. I see what you're going for, I just don't think the pieces quite fit.

The Darkprowl Thralls don't really fill that void (partly because they really play into thrall armies). Morgoloth could easily use small demons to use both Swarming Vermin and his Demon Leadership but even that feels like a mismatch with your theme of heavy, stone gargoyles.
You might be only one of the judges, but if you don't approve it, that's already a strike, and it only really seems to take 2 downvotes to stop a submission. I didn't know what a Quasit was until I googled it just now. If we changed the planet to something else, so that it wasn't looking to draw from D&D lore, would that help any?

The Darkprowl Thrall fills the void in that, it's the only Valkrill unit that can use Swarming Vermin. Giving a movement bonus can be very powerful, and having a slower moving squad ensures that there isn't too much power behind that bonus. I proposed 4 move over 5 both because they become a move 7 with Morgoloth if they have a move 5, because we had already decided to give them a movement bonus if they didn't use Flying.

There seems to be a lot of interest in having Gargoyles, but the way in which we have done it is showing enough signs of push back that I think we need to rework some stuff. I have a few ideas to consider and discuss with Scaperedude.
Reply With Quote
  #1903  
Old October 17th, 2017, 11:00 AM
Dad_Scaper's Avatar
Dad_Scaper Dad_Scaper is offline. Isn't that smurfy?
Counting gray cells and coming up short... Also, I confess to being a fanboy.
 
Join Date: January 3, 2007
Location: MD - Baltimore
Posts: 22,522
Images: 4
Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

If you *wanted* gargoyles, I think the natural direction is a high-defense flyer that can transform into a statute. How you implement that theme is up to you.

As I recall, dok implemented that theme in his version of a gargoyle, but I don't remember how he did it. I have my own idea, which might or might not be related to what he did because I don't specifically remember. Using D&D worlds will always get you in trouble with the D&D faithful, unless you are true to the source material.

C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
Designing Customs? Help With Wurdz
= =
Reply With Quote
  #1904  
Old October 17th, 2017, 11:27 AM
Kinseth's Avatar
Kinseth Kinseth is offline
2-Time Online HS Champion
 
Join Date: May 16, 2007
Location: On my Throne.
Posts: 6,892
Images: 33
Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death!
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Good feedback for Leaf_it, looking forward to hearing what you and scaperdude come up with. Hope to see some playtesting results also before they come back to the Pre-SOV workshop thread.

Good start though!

Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program!

Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites.
Reply With Quote
  #1905  
Old October 17th, 2017, 11:29 AM
Scaperedude's Avatar
Scaperedude Scaperedude is offline
 
Join Date: November 19, 2014
Location: USA - UT - Salt Lake City (Riverton)
Posts: 508
Scaperedude knows what's in an order marker Scaperedude knows what's in an order marker Scaperedude knows what's in an order marker
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Good feedback for Leaf_it, looking forward to hearing what you and scaperdude come up with. Hope to see some playtesting results also before they come back to the Pre-SOV workshop thread.

Good start though!
I'm hoping to get some playtesting in this Friday! Thanks for the feedback everyone!

scaperedude is Warrior of Ashra...
in THE WAR FORGE
"Go Forth and Have No Fear!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #1906  
Old October 17th, 2017, 10:53 PM
bmon's Avatar
bmon bmon is offline
 
Join Date: April 10, 2016
Location: USA - MN - Northfield
Posts: 282
Images: 11
bmon wears ripped pants of awesomeness bmon wears ripped pants of awesomeness bmon wears ripped pants of awesomeness bmon wears ripped pants of awesomeness bmon wears ripped pants of awesomeness bmon wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
If you *wanted* gargoyles, I think the natural direction is a high-defense flyer that can transform into a statute. How you implement that theme is up to you.

As I recall, dok implemented that theme in his version of a gargoyle, but I don't remember how he did it.
I remember seeing a version that I thought was a really cool idea. I think it was dok's. It dealt with order markers, or rather lack therof, triggering stone form. If there were no order markers on the card, it meant they took stone form and got an automatic shield added to defense. Simple, yet so thematic. I would have liked to see it paired with an ability that makes it tempting to use them, rather than just bring them out then park them in key spots. I think that's what the design ultimately lacked. Units that offer interesting choices are the best design, but I really liked where that design was going.
Reply With Quote
  #1907  
Old October 18th, 2017, 01:27 AM
Leaf_It's Avatar
Leaf_It Leaf_It is offline
 
Join Date: February 19, 2008
Location: USA - Utah
Posts: 772
Images: 4
Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness Leaf_It wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
If you *wanted* gargoyles, I think the natural direction is a high-defense flyer that can transform into a statute. How you implement that theme is up to you.

As I recall, dok implemented that theme in his version of a gargoyle, but I don't remember how he did it.
I remember seeing a version that I thought was a really cool idea. I think it was dok's. It dealt with order markers, or rather lack therof, triggering stone form. If there were no order markers on the card, it meant they took stone form and got an automatic shield added to defense. Simple, yet so thematic. I would have liked to see it paired with an ability that makes it tempting to use them, rather than just bring them out then park them in key spots. I think that's what the design ultimately lacked. Units that offer interesting choices are the best design, but I really liked where that design was going.
Yeah, we looked at that design. I liked the idea of turning to stone when they aren't moving, but the issue is that it required you not to have any order markers, and for a common Squad, that just wouldn't work. A defensive ability with a similar feel could work if you used counters, but I want to avoid using counters, as I think they over complicate things, and take up too much card space.
Reply With Quote
  #1908  
Old October 18th, 2017, 08:18 AM
wriggz's Avatar
wriggz wriggz is offline
Friendly Neighborhood Librarian
 
Join Date: January 15, 2009
Location: Canada - Ontario - Toronto
Posts: 3,018
Images: 25
wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death! wriggz is hot lava death!
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I've seen those minis in person and they are small. Small enough that anything over 2 attack would be a hard sell. they are also pretty light in colour and to my eyes don't inspire stone.

Painted and used as imps would be the ideal use IMHO. One thing SoV and C3V pride themselves on is for a unit to have stats powers and a mini that all work together to represent on a theme. I'm afraid tiny gargoyles might not stand up to that litmus test.

Actually calling them stone imps might work... but they still look unpainted.


wriggz's custom Figures and Terrain

Have a Question? Take it to the Dump.

Want to Learn More? Go to the Library.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C3G Dredd'verse workshop Tornado C3G Project 869 November 24th, 2018 02:44 PM
MiniatureGeek's Custom Workshop #1 Miniature Geek Other Customization & HS Additions 14 August 20th, 2009 11:37 PM
Sci Fi Terrain by Games Workshop RichardD Custom Terrain & Obstacles 12 August 4th, 2009 03:38 PM
Bad_Calvin's Workshop - update 4-7 bad_calvin Custom Terrain & Obstacles 54 June 5th, 2009 10:09 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:31 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.