Sherman Davies' DC customs - Riddler

[GreyOwl]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

As for mixing the normal and special attack in the same turn, back when C3V was working on Mok I was one of the people who most strongly objected to the idea because I thought it violated one of the fundamental rules of Heroscape, the rule that using a special attack replaces a normal attack. I was eventually convinced by Grungebob that if the game had not been cancelled, the official designers might have produced a similar design.

I've been debating this concept with myself, too. By any chance, do you have a link to that discussion?

[Sherman Davies]

GreyOwl, I sent the post you were requesting via PM, because it's from a C3V Inner Sanctum discussion. Suffice it to say that truth, the Guru and Grungebob all agreed that a figure combining a normal and special attack in the same turn was unprecedented, but that the original designers had discussed the possibility themselves and considered that the taboo against such an idea had already been tested by the Wolves of Badru.

The official FAQ also lends some support to the idea:

Can I use a Special Attack and a normal attack in the same turn?

No. A Special Attack is used instead of a normal attack for each figure unless otherwise stated on the Army Card.

[GreyOwl]

Thanks! So the scenario I had been considering was a figure that had a special attack along with a version of Double Attack. Using one of each attack would be cool then?

[Sherman Davies]

Well, it's a custom, so technically anything is cool - it's just a matter of how much like an official card you want it to feel like.

Maybe you could post your idea here and see what people think?

[GreyOwl]

I don't have a specific custom I'm working on currently that would use this concept, but I was thinking along the lines of a figure like Black Widow (just as an example).

She could have a normal attack, say Attack 4, Range 6, symbolizing dual pistols or something, along with:

DOUBLE ATTACK
When Black Widow attacks, she may attack one additional time.

Then in addition, she could have a special attack:

WIDOW'S BITE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 3. Attack 3.
If Black Widow attacks with Widow's Bite Special Attack and causes at least one wound, remove one Order Marker at random from the defending figure.


So something along those lines. It seems to me that based on the wording of Double Attack, she could take 2 attacks per turn made up of any combination of her normal and special attacks. Right?

[Grishnakh]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

I don't have a specific custom I'm working on currently that would use this concept, but I was thinking along the lines of a figure like Black Widow (just as an example).

She could have a normal attack, say Attack 4, Range 6, symbolizing dual pistols or something, along with:

DOUBLE ATTACK
When Black Widow attacks, she may attack one additional time.

Then in addition, she could have a special attack:

WIDOW'S BITE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 3. Attack 3.
If Black Widow attacks with Widow's Bite Special Attack and causes at least one wound, remove one Order Marker at random from the defending figure.


So something along those lines. It seems to me that based on the wording of Double Attack, she could take 2 attacks per turn made up of any combination of her normal and special attacks. Right?

That's actually kinda funny. I did exactly the same thing, Black Widow included, on something like 12 of my cards. It was Matt Helm that pointed out the issue that it caused and we eventually altered all of the cards to prevent exactly what you are taking about. Maybe I shouldn't have changed the cards after all.

You can read through the whole discussion starting on page 39 of my supers thread.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...=50184&page=39

[GreyOwl]

Interesting. In that thread, it seems like it wasn't your intention to mix and match attacks. And I'm still not sure if there's actually a rule saying they can't be mixed, or if there just never was a card that allowed you to do so.

[Grishnakh]

You are correct, it wasn't our intent to mix the powers. But after the discussion, and after I changed it, I started thinking along similar lines as you. What was to keep someone from doing that? Especially if you're willing to bend the established rules of Scape as much as I've been doing. Anyway, just thought you'd be interested in that discussion.

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

She could have a normal attack, say Attack 4, Range 6, symbolizing dual pistols or something, along with:

DOUBLE ATTACK
When Black Widow attacks, she may attack one additional time.

Then in addition, she could have a special attack:

WIDOW'S BITE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 3. Attack 3.
If Black Widow attacks with Widow's Bite Special Attack and causes at least one wound, remove one Order Marker at random from the defending figure.


So something along those lines. It seems to me that based on the wording of Double Attack, she could take 2 attacks per turn made up of any combination of her normal and special attacks. Right?

I agree with Grish that the above wording would be problematic. The FAQ states that the "Special attacks replace normal attacks" rule can only be broken if the card explicitly states it, and the above wording doesn't do so. If I had seen that power combo on an official card, I would've ruled that she could either use two normal attacks or the Widow's Bite SA.

My advice, if you're contemplating using the Mok language of "after attacking normally," would be to simply drop Double Attack entirely, since combining a normal and special attack in the same turn is already two attacks anyway.

[GreyOwl]

Well, one could argue that the special attack is still replacing the normal attack. It just doesn't have to replace it each time you attack. I can see it both ways.

I'm curious now what the best way to word the powers would be, if in fact one did want to mix any combination of normal and special attacks.

[quozl]

We used this for C3G's Diamondback:

TACTICAL DOUBLE ATTACK
When Diamondback attacks with a normal or special attack, she may attack one additional time with a normal or special attack.

[GreyOwl]

Cool, thanks!