Rhogar Dragonspine Pre-Release Discussion Thread

[Killer Lawnmower]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Cat

He's right. End of argument.

[Kroz]

Originally Posted by Killer Lawnmower

He's right. End of argument.

Um...that's not really an argument...so how can that be the argument ender. I'm sorry please try again.

[Kaiser Cat]

Originally Posted by Killer Lawnmower

He's right. End of argument.

Well of course YOU agree with me...

[vertigosmooth]

Can we just all agree that they both rock?

[Kaiser Cat]

Or better yet, can't we agree to NOT hijack this thread?

[kenjib]

I'm trying to figure out how the order marker management effects Rhogar's utility. It seems like the idea is to take a more powerful attacker and use that, then switch to Rhogar to heal for a turn, and back to the attacker.

However, the problem I see is that Rhogar can only heal one wound, and there is still a 25% chance of failure. The opponent can probably do more than one wound of damage in a turn. That means in order for Rhogar's turn to be useful at all, his attack also has to do some worthwhile damage at the same time that he is adjacent to the target of healing.

This means that in a range-on-range battle an order marker on him is probably a net loss compared to just plugging away with the wounded attacker hero until it dies. It seems that when he is useful is when healing a melee hero (but getting TWO units into melee range is pretty sketchy order marker usage if facing any ranged opposition), or any hero who is being attacked by enemy melee units - and even then the order marker might still be a net draw or even a loss...

In my theoryscape world I'm having a lot of trouble seeing him being useful in all situations - he almost seems like more of a counterdraft type of figure. The best place for him seems to be in accompanying a high value hero who needs to penetrate a rat screen. Run the hero up to the rat screen. Then bring up Rhogar to heal while clearing remaining rats, then continue on with the hero once the path is clear.

I don't have much chance to play anymore unfortunately. Can anyone who has had a chance to play or proxy him reflect on order marker management and the net benefit/loss of spending a turn on Rhogar instead of the unit you are healing?

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by kenjib

This means that in a range-on-range battle an order marker on him is probably a net loss compared to just plugging away with the wounded attacker hero until it dies.

I agree completely with this analysis. My theoryscape placed him with Q-9 or Brunak. The only way I see his value per order marker useful is paired with a high defense hero. Maybe an Iron Golem or Hydra as well. With 6 defense, he can keep both in the mix.

The fact that he has a decent special attack makes him somewhat useful in addition to the healing.

[Looking East]

I've proxied Rhogar in a couple of games and although order marker placement is quite tricky with him, I found the paladin to be an effective unit on several levels.

I agree with Kenjib on many of his points. In a fight where you face nothing but rangers Rhogar has trouble earning his points but still has a slight chance at pulling it off when used as a late game clean up piece since he has solid stats and a lot of hp. In general I find this to be one of the better uses for him. He is not a good hero to bring along for the initial assault in most cases since the loss of an OM on your more aggressive units is not a good idea in the early game when you should be slinging a minimum of 9 attack dice at your opponent per round. I actually try to sling at least 16 but but 9 is decent so long as you are using high defense pieces that your opponent will have trouble damaging. Rhogar shines in the mid to late game when ferocity of the fight dies down a bit and you have high value heros that need healing.

The way I played Rhogar is as follows.

I often put my fake move marker on him to confuse my opponent. It forces your opponent to change his unit placement so not as to risk losing a couple of low defense squad units in a mini fireline and after a while your opponent gets accustom to the fake marker being on Rhogar and you can switch it up and catch him off guard. I roasted a couple of dwarfs while healing a half dead Q9 in this manner.

Rhogar has to be kept close enough to the battle to be a threat. Unfortunately he is not very mobile. He should shadow high value, high defense units that are worth the loss of a round of solid attacking in order to heal them. The hydra is a good example as is Q9. If you waste your turn healing a low defense hero in the thick of battle you better have gotten to use your dragon breath on at least two pieces or hit something important from height because it is likely your opponent will easily put that wound marker back on your hero during the next round plus interest. It goes without saying that it's good to keep Raelin around.

Nothing will irritate your opponent more than seeing a hard earned wound marker being removed from a 9 defense Q9, particularly if you can kill one of his units as you do it. In one match my opponent chose to go after Rhogar before trying to take out Q9 after this happened and it was a mistake that cost him the match. Rhogar has solid defense and a ton of hp. With Raelin around he is a very hard hero to kill. If your opponent actually decides to go after him then even if you never take another turn with Rhogar he will likely earn his points simply by wasting a ton of your opponents OMs as you blast away freely with your more powerful units.

All in all I was quite impressed with Rhogar. He was fun to play and quite a solid hero. I never felt my points were wasted on him. I think he needs to be played with high defense and high value heroes and for him to really shine you should be facing an opponent whose army is heavily dependent on melee pieces, particularly squads.

It might be fun to team him up with the mind flayer, Ana, Raelin and Awa the next time I play somebody who builds an army almost entirely out of poor defense melee squads. With a little moxie on the 20 sider it would make for a fun game even if it ended in defeat. Awa could plink as they closed and then counterstrike once they are on top of him, the mind flayer could steal OMs and would occasionally activate either Rhogar for a quick heal and fire breath or awa for a double shot plus Ana would be sitting next to them healing which ever hero activated about half the time. They would have decent defense, would be stealing OMs and constantly healing themselves. It would make for a pretty resilient little band of misfits. It's too bad I don't know anybody who plays zombies.

[Kroz]

This is amazing. He just made Q9 even better!

[Roufus]

Originally Posted by Kroz

This is terrible. He just made Q9 even better!

I fixed your post.

[CheddarLimbo]

Healing Q9 with other figures has been possible for a while now...

It's always questionable if the healing will be worth it or not. You have to manage multiple units at a time to do it effectively, there's always the chance that it would be a better use of the OM's to just keep plugging away with Q9 instead of healing him.

[fomox]

Originally Posted by CheddarLimbo

Healing Q9 with other figures has been possible for a while now...

It's always questionable if the healing will be worth it or not. You have to manage multiple units at a time to do it effectively, there's always the chance that it would be a better use of the OM's to just keep plugging away with Q9 instead of healing him.

True. Sonlen is expensive though, and his healing is unreliable. Kelda's is reliable, and substantial, but she does nothing else, and dies pretty quick. Rhogar has reliable, low-level healing, is reasonably sturdy, and has two nice attack options. I think he makes a Q9-with-healing army a little more viable. I've tried it a few times, and it's nice. Even if you have to shoot the fireline through your own Q9 a few times.