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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #109  
Old July 14th, 2018, 06:35 PM
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Re: The Book of Hellboy

Yeah, I do feel like he's stuck in counterdraft territory now. We really should beef up our investigator synergy.
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  #110  
Old July 14th, 2018, 06:36 PM
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Re: The Book of Hellboy

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Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Yeah, I do feel like he's stuck in counterdraft territory now. We really should beef up our investigator synergy.
Even when the thing he's meant to counter shows up, I'd rather fight it with Hercules most of the time.


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  #111  
Old July 15th, 2018, 03:21 PM
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Re: The Book of Hellboy

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Yeah, I do feel like he's stuck in counterdraft territory now. We really should beef up our investigator synergy.
Even when the thing he's meant to counter shows up, I'd rather fight it with Hercules most of the time.
Yeah, Hellboy is pretty terrible right now (one of a number of characters I'd never consider bringing to a tournament). All he has going for him is being a crappy counterdraft for several different things that you probably aren't seeing at one time. I seem to recall that he was mostly priced that high because of Lava Resistance, which I guess made sense at the time but seems to ignore that Hulkbuster effectively had the important part of Lava Resistance most of the time and is massively better than Hellboy for the same cost.

He'd be a lot better with some decent Investigator synergy though, as he'd be the strongest among them.


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  #112  
Old July 15th, 2018, 04:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Hellboy

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Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
I seem to recall that he was mostly priced that high because of Lava Resistance .....
Really? I don't find that power to be worth much of anything as I rarely play with the lava tiles. The handful of SA's it gives protection from isn't all that significant either.

I agree he is too much of a niche counter draft right now, blocking MD figures is cool and 8 base attack vs. Undead/Creatures/Demons/Huge figures is nice but lots of strong army builds don't feature any of those units. His ranged attack being a SA that sometimes doesn't even work, and when it does isn't all that strong hurts him too. I wish he were priced closer to what he does vs. everyone else and when those units show up he just over performs a bit. I don't think Investigator synergy can save him either.

Is there a price point where you would draft the card as is? My first instinct when considering the cards general purpose use is it's closer to a 320 point card. Maybe bump that up to 330 to account for the few times he gets to face his primary foes. That is still a 30 point miss on costing, which is why no one ever drafts him anymore in my games. And why I have to come up with some limited draft parameters in order to make him a more viable choice.
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  #113  
Old July 15th, 2018, 05:24 PM
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Re: The Book of Hellboy

Yeah I think we used him once years ago and never again. A big shame as he's an awesome character.
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  #114  
Old July 15th, 2018, 06:32 PM
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Re: The Book of Hellboy

Honestly, I think this guy and Judge Death are a couple of the few cases where I think we're highly justified reevaluating underpowered units, particularly due to the fact that they're effectively headliners for their respective universes (Hellboy as the main hero and Judge Death as the main villain).


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  #115  
Old July 15th, 2018, 07:37 PM
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Re: The Book of Hellboy

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
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I seem to recall that he was mostly priced that high because of Lava Resistance .....
Really? I don't find that power to be worth much of anything as I rarely play with the lava tiles. The handful of SA's it gives protection from isn't all that significant either.
Don't quote me on it, I just seem to remember that being a factor.

It is pretty valuable against the Magneto/Magma combo, more so before Lava got fiddled with twice. Though I feel most people just don't play that combo because Molten Lava is stupid.


Quote:
Is there a price point where you would draft the card as is?
Me personally? Nope. Like eventually he could be lowered to the point he could coast on stats, but I like cards to do things and I've no interest in counterdraft units even when they're actually good at their jobs.

If he gets decent Investigator synergy that would make me a lot more likely to draft him than any point change. Wouldn't be super thrilled that he didn't really do anything, but he'd at least have a place as the Investigator team's beatstick.


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  #116  
Old July 15th, 2018, 09:29 PM
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Re: The Book of Hellboy

Are reevaluation requests still a thing that happens? Is it worth revisiting the points here?

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  #117  
Old July 15th, 2018, 10:23 PM
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Re: The Book of Hellboy

I'm thinking a version 2 is more likely.
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  #118  
Old July 16th, 2018, 09:58 AM
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Re: The Book of Hellboy

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Originally Posted by Scapemage View Post
Are reevaluation requests still a thing that happens? Is it worth revisiting the points here?

Yes and we are pretty close on finishing up any over powered cards. That is priority one. With the CRB we don't really have any new issues coming up. We've been hesitant to start under powered cards as we've discovered for most of those the better options were to design a new version or design support pieces that make the first version work. Personally I'm on the side that thinks if a card can be fixed with a price increase/decrease and nothing else that its' worth the effort but it looks like this isn't one of those so we are back to Version 2 or as SG-1 pointed out...Create a synergy for him to work with.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #119  
Old July 16th, 2018, 10:05 AM
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Re: The Book of Hellboy

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scapemage View Post
Are reevaluation requests still a thing that happens? Is it worth revisiting the points here?

Yes and we are pretty close on finishing up any over powered cards. That is priority one. With the CRB we don't really have any new issues coming up. We've been hesitant to start under powered cards as we've discovered for most of those the better options were to design a new version or design support pieces that make the first version work. Personally I'm on the side that thinks if a card can be fixed with a price increase/decrease and nothing else that its' worth the effort but it looks like this isn't one of those so we are back to Version 2 or as SG-1 pointed out...Create a synergy for him to work with.
Those directions could work with this guy... they won't work for Judge Death, who I still maintain desperately needs a rework. He could so easily be made awesome.


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  #120  
Old July 16th, 2018, 11:44 AM
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Re: The Book of Hellboy

I don't think synergy's gonna turn him into an a-lister or anything, but it would give him a niche.

I'd definitely take the approach of implementing some synergy for him before doing a Hellboy (II) - not that I have anything against an eventual second version, but implementing the BPRD as a faction that can help him out before doing another Hellboy lets the second one really be designed with both the faction and differentiation from Hellboy (I) in mind.

Also, creating some synergy would help out the other syenrgy-less investigators (man I gotta get on X-Factor stuff).

Also also, Margloth's been posting some really cool BPRD designs in the sanctum and I'd love to see something come of those.
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