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Old September 22nd, 2011, 10:04 PM
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Competitive Unit Alters

I really like what the Competitive Unit Congress is doing with units that are not generally tournament worthy and making them so with slight modifications. They playtest them in tournament situations and make sure the quality is great. However, I am too impatient to wait for their changes so have come up with some additional ones. I hope they don't take offense as they are not slow - they are spending quality time testing, while mine below are thrown together and barely playtested. They are meant to be played in tandem with CUC approved changes, and you can also play with other customs such as C3V, but that might prove overpowering. I recommend them for casual games and not any tourneys, unlike CUC. If you play any of the below, please let me know how they are. They were made in MSE with high-res dungeon style cards, so please excuse artifacts of mixing card backgrounds from older designs with the dungeon style.

You can download a single PDF of all the cards at 3/page here. (I updated for cards added/changed 9/16/14)
While you are at it, download the CUC Passed & Proposed cards at 3/page here.
Also, check out my Classic Customs to Fill in Holes.
If you like CUC & CUA changes, see other threads/users who have made their own modifications of HS cards to make them more competitive:
Competitive Unit Congress
@lefton4ya - Competitive Unit Alters
@rouby44 - Official Units Revisited or A thorough reexamination of Heroscape
@wriggz - Thematic Classic Redesigns
@TheSparkleInYourWater - Recreating Some Official Cards
Customs using Master Set Figures (RotV, SotM, BftU)
Everything is better with bonding! - Custom power mods


AQUILLA
Spoiler Alert!


EINAR
Spoiler Alert!


JANDAR
Spoiler Alert!


ULLAR - Elves, Eladrin and Half-Elf:
Spoiler Alert!


ULLAR - Other
Spoiler Alert!


UTGAR
Spoiler Alert!


VYDAR
Spoiler Alert!


MARVEL (Copied from @IshMEL 's Valkyrie cards for Marvelscape figures)
Spoiler Alert!

Last edited by lefton4ya; June 5th, 2016 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Added Marvel
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Old September 23rd, 2011, 04:57 AM
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Casual Unit Alters

I think that CUA would be a better title(Casual Unit Alters) for this project. If your going on a whim with these unit alterations, I doubt that the CUC care, but a nice way to differentiate the two ideas(other than saying lefton4ya's project) is to change the name a bit.

On to the units(that I know)!!!

Syvarris:
Evasive 1 seems to be better suited for him(in fact that would work for the AA's too). Something to remember is that ranged units generally don't have better base stats than melee units(at least when it comes to Atk/Def). Sure evasive stops during adjacency, but it is still essentially a bonus 2 defense. Note this also would make Syvarris be a relatively good kiting unit when paired with Theracus. Bad news all around.

Deadeye Dan:
That boost from 3HP to 5HP seems like a 5 point increase would be in need. Similar to Syvarris being able to kite with Theracus, DED will be able to do as well, with a better HP count as well. My logic of adding in the 5 points? Deter players from Theracus/DED(revised) combos. Making a 105 point duo is painful to include in most armies.

Agent Carr:
Are you trying to make Chuck Norris? Seems pretty powerful to me(or even more so). A point bump to 110 might be in question. High stats for a low cost tend to make the game break a bit. And no, Stealth Dodge does not need to be implemented, it is the Krav's thing(not including the story on this one, but gameplay wise it would be unwise to make 2 units too similar, unless of course you did not own a Stealth Dodging unit).

Major X17:
Interesting. His heightened natural defense will make him less fearful of your Elves. Of course, we might be using slightly different scales here, I play casually and your making custom alteration for casual use(but designed to fit into the competitive metagame), so I could be wrong. As with Carr, a price bump to 110 might be in question.

Retiarius:
A few more steroids and a stronger net. Personally, I think leaving his Net Trip 14 at Net Trip 14 is your best bet. Something to remember is that Crixus is a defensive beast. His eye-patch wearing comrade is offensive. With Sparticus at the lead(with a big fat "X"), Retiarius is really a hero-slayer with 6 attack. A 50-50 chance to drop the defense of his prey to 1 is just too much. I think that his normal net is just fine.

Anubian Wolves:
Did you reduce the number of Wolves by 1? Your missing the last wolf's hit zone if you didn't. If you did, well you would need a picture with 1 fewer wolves. I'll wait until your response to this question to give my feedback on the Wolfies.

Deepwyrm Drow:
60 points might be the sweet spot for the Deepwyrm Drow. That would definitely require some testing to be sure.

Isamu:
I would just play him at 20 and be done with it. Or simply keep him at 10 points and make Vanish 9 into something like Vanish 13.

Sahuagin Raider:
A bonding power does not seem to be the best way to go. Perhaps Frenzy? If nothing else it seems a bit more thematic and will definitely be an interesting hit with Mittens. With that, I can see 100 points of revised Raiders killing Agent Carr.

Shades of Bleakewoode:
The fact that they can only Soul Devour at the start of their turn has always irked me a bit. Adding in the idea that they can use it before and after their move is a neat concept. It really makes you wanna see if they are capable of pulling their weight like the Phantom Knights(or perhaps lack of, as they are ghosts).

Deathstalkers:
Maul Special Attack would certainly pass at my table, and I think you have found an elegant way to create the "Death" in "Deathstalker"(without using Raelin anyways).

Deathwalker 9000:
Making him a Common Hero is a very impractical way to give this robot some love. If you wanted to draft him in multiples, I would highly recommend the change to an Uncommon Hero. Seeing 3 Deathwalker 9000s(as common heroes) and two squads of rats is not quite the same as seeing Q9 and rats. Q9 is able to be folded in half with some whiffs on his end, but in reality the chances of one experiencing a Deathwalker Roll is low as it is. Of course squads can continuously attack that number and typically win out, but trying that 3 times is almost unreal. Plus if you do have an OM on the DW9K card, if one dies you can still activate another. That's a lot of death. At least as an Uncommon Hero, you can reduce that from happening.

Zettian Guards:
Soulborg Strategic Bonding and a Common Squad status might be a bit much still. One of the things about Unique Squads is that they always have some sort of benefit that Commons do not have(if the Krav had the same powers as the Microcorp Agents would you use the Krav? Obviously no...). The reason the Zettians should stay as a Unique Squad(with the official card), is that massive 7 defense. No Common Squads have a base defense greater than 5. Now then, if we decided to keep that reasoning, we would need to at least drop their basic defense to 6. Because, if for nothing else, it will help to distinguish them from the Death Knights of Valkrill(both squads have an Attack based power, regardless of wording or effect and well as some form of bonding with this revised version of yours).

Overall, you didn't do too badly with MSE(it's obvious, the "artsy" mistakes are everywhere as well as many tell-tale parts of the cards). With some practice these cards could come to work nicely. Something to remember is that you can make it to where the text of powers does not appear by hitting the [...] button near the top of the window.

(Of course I could always just fix the cards if you want, with exception of Gueri).

Nice start lefton4ya!!!

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Old September 23rd, 2011, 05:53 PM
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Re: Casual Unit Alters

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
I think that CUA would be a better title(Casual Unit Alters) for this project. If your going on a whim with these unit alterations, I doubt that the CUC care, but a nice way to differentiate the two ideas(other than saying lefton4ya's project) is to change the name a bit.
Thanks. I changed the name - couldn't think of a different word for mod(ification). Also, thanks for taking the time for constructive feedback as it really helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
On to the units(that I know)!!!

Syvarris:
Evasive 1 seems to be better suited for him(in fact that would work for the AA's too). Something to remember is that ranged units generally don't have better base stats than melee units(at least when it comes to Atk/Def). Sure evasive stops during adjacency, but it is still essentially a bonus 2 defense. Note this also would make Syvarris be a relatively good kiting unit when paired with Theracus. Bad news all around.
I have playtested AA w/evasive 2 against ranged squads (10th/4th) and they still have trouble against them. However I never playtested Syvarris this way and with his extended range, maybe it is too much to have +2 defense, but I was going for consistency. FYI Theracus can't be used for kiting (running and gunning) as you can't move w/ Theracus and shoot with Syvarris on the same turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Deadeye Dan:
That boost from 3HP to 5HP seems like a 5 point increase would be in need. Similar to Syvarris being able to kite with Theracus, DED will be able to do as well, with a better HP count as well. My logic of adding in the 5 points? Deter players from Theracus/DED(revised) combos. Making a 105 point duo is painful to include in most armies.
At 5 life, he is on par with other 60 point heroes Zetacron or Sam Brown. With only 2 defense, an extra 2 life will allow him to take 1 or 2 more shots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Agent Carr:
Are you trying to make Chuck Norris? Seems pretty powerful to me(or even more so). A point bump to 110 might be in question. High stats for a low cost tend to make the game break a bit. And no, Stealth Dodge does not need to be implemented, it is the Krav's thing(not including the story on this one, but gameplay wise it would be unwise to make 2 units too similar, unless of course you did not own a Stealth Dodging unit).
Maybe you are right on him being overpowered now, as basically he is now Iron Golem with phantom walk and a wimpy ranged attack to boot. I will have to playtest him more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Major X17:
Interesting. His heightened natural defense will make him less fearful of your Elves. Of course, we might be using slightly different scales here, I play casually and your making custom alteration for casual use(but designed to fit into the competitive metagame), so I could be wrong. As with Carr, a price bump to 110 might be in question.
I think he is still a less powerful version of Iron Golum, but with Cyberclaw, so I think 100 points is still fair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Retiarius:
A few more steroids and a stronger net. Personally, I think leaving his Net Trip 14 at Net Trip 14 is your best bet. Something to remember is that Crixus is a defensive beast. His eye-patch wearing comrade is offensive. With Sparticus at the lead(with a big fat "X"), Retiarius is really a hero-slayer with 6 attack. A 50-50 chance to drop the defense of his prey to 1 is just too much. I think that his normal net is just fine.
He needed 5 defense, but with just this change you would still never draft him over Crixus unless his Net Trip was a little more frequent. He is definitely more of a hero killer with this, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Anubian Wolves:
Did you reduce the number of Wolves by 1? Your missing the last wolf's hit zone if you didn't. If you did, well you would need a picture with 1 fewer wolves. I'll wait until your response to this question to give my feedback on the Wolfies.
Interesting - I got the card from his Heroscape.com image, which is missing one fig in the hit zone. I will have to fix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Deepwyrm Drow:
60 points might be the sweet spot for the Deepwyrm Drow. That would definitely require some testing to be sure.
Yeah, he is still good at 70 with a bunch of chainfighters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Isamu:
I would just play him at 20 and be done with it. Or simply keep him at 10 points and make Vanish 9 into something like Vanish 13.
Yeah, he could be upped to 20, but I think the game could use a 15 point unit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Sahuagin Raider:
A bonding power does not seem to be the best way to go. Perhaps Frenzy? If nothing else it seems a bit more thematic and will definitely be an interesting hit with Mittens. With that, I can see 100 points of revised Raiders killing Agent Carr.
This change is probably the biggest change of all the ones I made and is more of a custom unit by itself than a modification. I may scrap this and make a custom ferocious squad that has the same bonding options, but I like the idea of a common hero that can bond with other heroes, including itself. The other idea is make him 15 or 20 points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Shades of Bleakewoode:
The fact that they can only Soul Devour at the start of their turn has always irked me a bit. Adding in the idea that they can use it before and after their move is a neat concept. It really makes you wanna see if they are capable of pulling their weight like the Phantom Knights(or perhaps lack of, as they are ghosts).
Yea, they are definitely comparable to Phantom Knights now, although they cost more, they have one more move and one less defense against range, so you are paying 30 points for the chance to Soul Devour - which is not worth anything if you are playing mostly squads but worth a lot if against heroes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Deathstalkers:
Maul Special Attack would certainly pass at my table, and I think you have found an elegant way to create the "Death" in "Deathstalker"(without using Raelin anyways).
I think this is the weakest change I made, but I like the extra choice of how many dice to roll each attack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Deathwalker 9000:
Making him a Common Hero is a very impractical way to give this robot some love. If you wanted to draft him in multiples, I would highly recommend the change to an Uncommon Hero. Seeing 3 Deathwalker 9000s(as common heroes) and two squads of rats is not quite the same as seeing Q9 and rats. Q9 is able to be folded in half with some whiffs on his end, but in reality the chances of one experiencing a Deathwalker Roll is low as it is. Of course squads can continuously attack that number and typically win out, but trying that 3 times is almost unreal. Plus if you do have an OM on the DW9K card, if one dies you can still activate another. That's a lot of death. At least as an Uncommon Hero, you can reduce that from happening.
The whole point of a common hero is to reduce the chance of lost order markers - I'm not quite sure what you mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Zettian Guards:
Soulborg Strategic Bonding and a Common Squad status might be a bit much still. One of the things about Unique Squads is that they always have some sort of benefit that Commons do not have(if the Krav had the same powers as the Microcorp Agents would you use the Krav? Obviously no...). The reason the Zettians should stay as a Unique Squad(with the official card), is that massive 7 defense. No Common Squads have a base defense greater than 5. Now then, if we decided to keep that reasoning, we would need to at least drop their basic defense to 6. Because, if for nothing else, it will help to distinguish them from the Death Knights of Valkrill(both squads have an Attack based power, regardless of wording or effect and well as some form of bonding with this revised version of yours).
My mistake - I meant to keep them a unique squad as I felt the same as you that making them a common squad would be to great a change (which is why I think the CUC will never pass them this way) unless you lower defense or increase cost. I will have to change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Overall, you didn't do too badly with MSE(it's obvious, the "artsy" mistakes are everywhere as well as many tell-tale parts of the cards). With some practice these cards could come to work nicely. Something to remember is that you can make it to where the text of powers does not appear by hitting the [...] button near the top of the window.

(Of course I could always just fix the cards if you want, with exception of Gueri).

Nice start lefton4ya!!!
The MSE high-res templates all use dungeon styles, so the pre wave-8 cards have artifacts of designs over the figure image space, SotM and waves 8-12 have remnants of the vine motif in the figure backround, but the D&D units have a matched look. I also made Gueri-Oni Valkrill but never changed his background. Maybe I or someone can make high-res templates in MSE for the other styles.

Thanks again for the comments.

Last edited by lefton4ya; September 23rd, 2011 at 06:00 PM.
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Old September 24th, 2011, 01:53 AM
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Re: Competitive Unit Alters

Quote:
The MSE high-res templates all use dungeon styles, so the pre wave-8 cards have artifacts of designs over the figure image space, SotM and waves 8-12 have remnants of the vine motif in the figure backround, but the D&D units have a matched look. I also made Gueri-Oni Valkrill but never changed his background. Maybe I or someone can make high-res templates in MSE for the other styles.
You can change the style of the card to any style. In fact you can even mix and match from within the sets.

A custom(sans pictures) done using RotV's background in MSE. The "blurry" effect is because Mediafire is hosting the image for me. Otherwise, the card looks fine.


You can do it easily enough so that you can fix the image. All cards "made" by me are done in MSE(others probably tend to use GIMP/Photoshop).

If nothing else, I wish your alters all the best. Cheers!

My customs.
Fun Event! June 16th
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Last edited by flameslayer93; September 24th, 2011 at 03:37 AM. Reason: well, of course with the exception of it having no pictures, a missing power, unboldened text and much more...
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Old October 5th, 2011, 11:53 AM
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Re: Casual Unit Alters

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
I think that CUA would be a better title(Casual Unit Alters) for this project. If your going on a whim with these unit alterations, I doubt that the CUC care, but a nice way to differentiate the two ideas(other than saying lefton4ya's project) is to change the name a bit.
Thanks. I changed the name - couldn't think of a different word for mod(ification). Also, thanks for taking the time for constructive feedback as it really helps
The change does raise the question "Competitive unit alters what?"

Less snarky; more constructive: How about LeftOn4ya's Alternative Universe Designs. That would be, um, laudable.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 10:36 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Alters

Updated my Competitive Unit Alters PDF with below changes.

Updated Cards:
Shades Of Bleakewoode (fixed wording)

Sahuagin Raider (no longer bonds with marvel)

Anubian Wolves (fixed hitzone to use 3 figures)

Zettian Guards (fixed to be unique squad)

Syvarris (fixed wording)


New Cards:
Grok Riders
Proposal: Change cost to 95. Add power Disengage. Change Marro Warlord Bonding to Marro War Boinding: "... you may take a turn with any small, medium, or large Marro Hero you control."
Logic: You can now bond with Kee-Mo-Shi & Tul-Bak-Ra. Now they are like Phantom Knights with bonding but without defensive bonus and still die easily - so unsure on final pricing.


Saylind
Proposal: Increase life to 6, Change Flying to Stealth Flying.
Logic: Some other Kyrie heroes have 6 life and he needed more survivability. Stealth Flying helps him summon better.

Last edited by lefton4ya; January 8th, 2012 at 11:15 PM.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 10:38 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Alters

For the Ninjas, why not just change Ninja Hero Bonding to:

Before taking a turn with the NotNW, you may take a turn with any Ninja Hero you control that does not follow Utgar.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 10:38 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Alters

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Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
Saylind
Proposal: Increase life to 6, Change Flying to Stealth Flying.
Logic: Some other Kyrie heroes have 6 life and he needed more survivability. Stealth Flying helps him summon better.
He sure is ballsier this way.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 11:11 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Alters

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
For the Ninjas, why not just change Ninja Hero Bonding to:

Before taking a turn with the NotNW, you may take a turn with any Ninja Hero you control that does not follow Utgar.
Thanks for the suggestion. Seems kinda weird, but I guess similar too Sahuagin Raider bonding with units ..."that follows any general" to exclude Marvel. I might do after I get more feedback on this and other units.

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
Saylind
Proposal: Increase life to 6, Change Flying to Stealth Flying.
Logic: Some other Kyrie heroes have 6 life and he needed more survivability. Stealth Flying helps him summon better.
He sure is ballsier this way.
Dunno exactly what you mean by "ballsier" but I guess he can be more aggressive and make a run for the start zone or Raelin easier, both because of stealth flying and one more life.
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Old September 16th, 2014, 07:58 PM
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Re: Competitive Unit Alters

OK, I went a little crazy and updated almost all my cards and added 28 new cards!
Changed: Acolarh, Aubrien Archers, Syvarris, Saylind, Grok Riders
Added: Blue Wyrmling, Brave Arrow, Fyorlag Spiders, Ashigaru Yari, Kato Katsuro, Master of the Hunt, Dzu-Teh, Erevan Sunshadow, Greater Ice Elemental, MacDirk Warriors, Arkmer, Brandis Skyhunter, Chardris, Emirroon, Jorhdawn, Kyntela Gwyn, Morsbane, Sharwin Wildborn, Sonlen, Ulginesh, Elite Onyx Vipers, Khosumet The Darklord, Frost Giant of Morh, Iskra, Rechets of Bogdan, Mind Flayer Mastermind, Obsidian Guards, Evar Scarcarver
Kept (except fixed wording on most): Gurei-oni, Ninjas Of The Northern Wind, Retarius, Deadeye Dan, Anubian Wolves, Isamu, Sahuagin Raider, Shades of Bleakewoode, Deathstalkers, Deathwalker 7000, 800, and 9000, Zettian Guards, Agent Carr, Major X17
Removed: Deepwyrm Drow (CUC passed them)

I will update my PDF compilation once there is some feedback (including proofreading for grammar and typos). To make the feedback more manageable, besides grammar and typo issues, give feedback on the following first:
  • Blue Wyrmling: Change Defense from 3 to 4.
  • Brave Arrow: Make Uncommon Hero.
  • Fyorlag Spiders: Increase defense from 2 to 3 and change power ENTANGLING WEB to "... If you roll a 16 14 or higher..."
  • Ashigaru Yari: Change ENCIRCLE SPECIAL ATTACK to "Range 1. Attack 6 Special. If 2, 3, or 4 Ashigaru Yari you control are adjacent to the same enemy figure, they may roll their attack dice as one combined attack of 4, 6, or 8. The defending figure compares height to the lowest Ashigaru Yari to determine any height advantage. Encircle Special Attack may only be used once per turn. If Encircle Special Attack is used, figures not involved in the attack but that moved this turn cannot attack may still do a normal attack."
  • Kato Katsuro: Change power KATO KATSURO'S COMMAND to "Instead of taking a turn with Kato Katsuro, you may take a turn with one up to two of the following that you control: • 1 Samurai Hero or 1 Samurai Squad, • 1 Ashigaru Harquebus Squad, • 1 Ashigaru Yari Squad. You may choose which Hero or Squad to activate first. Any figure in the above list that is taking a turn instead of Kato Katsuro must be within clear sight of Kato Katsuro before moving."
  • Master of the Hunt: Reduce cost from 140 to 125 and change JAVELIN to "...If you roll a 16 an 11 or higher..."
  • All Elves (except WoA) and all Eladrin and Half-Elves : Add power EVASIVE 1.
  • Change Eladrin to Elf for Sharwin Wildborn and Erevan Sunshadow, and change Sonlen to a Wizard
  • Brandis Skyhunter: Add EVASIVE 1 as above for elves (but still keep half-elf) and change Archer's Glory to "Each time Brandis Skyhunter destroys an opponent's non-adjacent Unique Hero figure, you make take another turn with Brandis Skyhunter."
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  #11  
Old September 16th, 2014, 10:13 PM
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IshMEL IshMEL is offline
 
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Re: Competitive Unit Alters

These are really great! A few suggestions and observations:

Brave Arrow: Like the idea, but I would change his name. "Brave Arrow" is a given name, and it seems odd for a Uncommon. Perhaps "Mohican River Tracker"?

Elves: A suggestion for Evasive 1 -- since you're adding it to the Elves, how about "Elven Speed"? It would recall Thorian Speed and would help tie the power name to their race. (Also, why not just make Brandis an Elf?) On Sharwin, glad to see her as an Elf too. The combination of the Evasive +1 and her ranged counterstrike could be a lot. I don't think she should have both, but that's just a gut-check.

Anubian Wolves. The movement bonding fixes their main problem (keeping their cheerleaders adjacent) but while "Unholy Bonding" works as a name for the Death Knights, I think "Relentless Movement Bonding" would be a better name for the Anubian's power. Don't ask me why, it's just a style thing.

Thanks for keeping these coming!
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Old September 17th, 2014, 12:02 AM
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Re: Competitive Unit Alters

You been able to get much testing on these since January?
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