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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.

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  #4573  
Old May 25th, 2016, 04:17 PM
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Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

Ok, but my point is that these rankings are based on 500-24-double blind-no restriction tournament play.

I do not see that occurring any longer, therefore there is no budge on the needle for metagame changes.
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  #4574  
Old May 26th, 2016, 02:12 PM
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Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

What kevindola said.

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  #4575  
Old May 27th, 2016, 10:56 AM
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Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindola View Post
Ok, but my point is that these rankings are based on 500-24-double blind-no restriction tournament play.

I do not see that occurring any longer, therefore there is no budge on the needle for metagame changes.
Isn't that basically saying that these rankings are no longer relevant for competitive play in general (in a way, because the metagame has changed so much from what this is based on?).

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  #4576  
Old May 27th, 2016, 11:50 AM
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Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

Actually, the Geoncon events are basically all double blind, and a bunch of them are no-restriction. They do have 18 figure restrictions, which does hurt some builds significantly (most notably 'trons and cutters) but isn't crippling to them. Still, it does shift the meta a little, and perhaps should be reflected here since figure restrictions are so common these days.

Even in various draft-ish formats, or army restriction formats, these rankings do serve as a guide to which figures are generally good, and it tends to hold up.
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  #4577  
Old June 3rd, 2016, 10:32 PM
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Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindola View Post
Ok, but my point is that these rankings are based on 500-24-double blind-no restriction tournament play.

I do not see that occurring any longer, therefore there is no budge on the needle for metagame changes.
Isn't that basically saying that these rankings are no longer relevant for competitive play in general (in a way, because the metagame has changed so much from what this is based on?).
dok said some words that looked like they were correcting me, but weren't really.

Still I'm going to echo his latter point. The power rankings are certainly relevant in general (and more than just in general) for a vast majority of the alternative ,and now, more commonplace tournament formats out there. If you're looking at a format where balance is important (Take 2 or pod draft or making a relatively well balanced draft pool) then this power rankings is a very useful tool in estimating relative pod/army power levels. Even formats that dramatically change point totals or figure limits will mostly keep these rankings static with some alteration as the high/low end of the point value spectrum.

However, my main point is that results from alternative figure/point limit or restriction laden (general wars, large/huge, uniques) formats shouldn't shift anything in this power ranking format as currently constructed. (Or reverse the whip)

Where discussion may be warranted is thinly drawn conclusions from old data. Speaking of which....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
I haven't poked my head in here for awhile.

I agree with some of Cleon and Dok's thoughts. Some of the D&D heroes (Pelloth!) probably got too much of a pass as I hoped they weren't as awful as they seemed. I definitely agree that Valguard is probably too low. He was a beast when I ran him last summer. 2 base attack or not, 4 defense and 7 life for 110 points is pretty great.

.....
What's the process here? Jexik is the keeper of the power rankings and he agrees with some of the changes that Cleon proposed and dok echoed....so Jexik should update the OP with changes to the rankings? It's not like he has to go through the great Power Ranking Tribunal or make a trek to the Great Mystic Web of Poison to beseech the Wise Arachnid who lives there, right?
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  #4578  
Old June 6th, 2016, 11:26 PM
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Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindola View Post
or make a trek to the Great Mystic Web of Poison to beseech the Wise Arachnid who lives there, right?
Spider Poison?
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  #4579  
Old June 24th, 2016, 12:38 AM
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Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindola View Post
or make a trek to the Great Mystic Web of Poison to beseech the Wise Arachnid who lives there, right?
Spider Poison?
Yes, this is exactly how it works, and Jexik reached me recently

I haven't played in a long time, but I'm of the opinion that the rankings are more or less complete. Still, the meta can change if the predominant tourney format changes. When thinking about armies for the main event at GenCon this year, it seems like Trons aren't that playable. I don't think they're dead though...Trons like playing against fewer figures, and if enough people are silly like Ken and try playing knights or other equally crappy melee units, Trons might win it all

However, I don't think reverse the whip should have any influence on rankings. Are you going to put Major Q9 as a C+ because he's too good? The only changes that would make any sense to me are moving units up in the rankings because they're difficult units to master, or moving units down in the rankings because they're too easy to play.
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  #4580  
Old June 24th, 2016, 06:45 PM
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Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spider_poison View Post
However, I don't think reverse the whip should have any influence on rankings. Are you going to put Major Q9 as a C+ because he's too good? The only changes that would make any sense to me are moving units up in the rankings because they're difficult units to master, or moving units down in the rankings because they're too easy to play.
Sweet, TKN and Arrow Gruts A! Stingers and Q9 D!

FWIW, Deroche made day 2 (and lost in semifinals) with 'trons in 2015 and I made day 2 (and lost in semifinals) with 'trons in 2014, and we might have been the only people playing 'trons each of those two years. They're still playable, even with a 16 figure restriction. This year, with the figure count bumped out to 18 figures, they're totally in play. Glad x2, Blast x2, Raelin, two heroes for your last 240, sit a blast. If anything it's too strong for the meta.
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  #4581  
Old June 24th, 2016, 07:33 PM
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Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

Taelord and Zetacron was the final 240 I had for that army, but it's probably too good. The only reason I think I was able to do okay with a Taelord last year was because the point total was so low. It's a similar idea where if you can kill 4 Blasts you knock put the hitting power, but it's way easier to kill 5 10th with no screen than it is to kill 4 Blasts with a Glad screen. Too consistent of an army.

Sad that Arrows are not really viable this year though, unless you do like two non-Swog bonding heroes or throw a dragon on the top, neither of which are good choices. Arrow Gruts are one of my favorite RtW figures, which I guess is obvious since my dad and I have traded bringing them the last 3 years. TKN is great this year though, plenty of room for good support for him too.
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  #4582  
Old June 29th, 2016, 06:00 PM
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Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

To be perfectly honest, I've been thinking about Taelord quite a bit for the main event. I think auras in general can be tricky to play right, so Taelord seems attractive. Taelord, Raelin, and a bunch of decent high ranged units seems good. Of course, the problem is that even Ken could figure out how to play that army . Whatever army I settle on, I just want it to be something that is a little difficult to play.
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  #4583  
Old June 29th, 2016, 06:06 PM
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Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegietarian18 View Post
Sad that Arrows are not really viable this year though, unless you do like two non-Swog bonding heroes or throw a dragon on the top, neither of which are good choices.
My top army choice right now is an Arrow Grut army . But part of that is because of nostalgia. Jexik thinks it's a little too good though, so I might come up with something else.
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  #4584  
Old June 29th, 2016, 10:28 PM
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Re: Heroscape Power Rankings: Complete?

Taelord/Arrow Grut army?

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