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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #85  
Old November 16th, 2016, 06:16 PM
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Re: The Book of Songbird (Public Playtesting Phase)

No worries. I've botched tests worse than that. Still a data point.

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  #86  
Old November 17th, 2016, 09:37 PM
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Re: The Book of Songbird (Public Playtesting Phase)

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Okay, here's the first test.

Name Of The Playtest Unit: Songbird

Army Test 1
Map: Sacred Shrine (no glyphs)
Armies:
Songbird, Atlas, Meteorite, Captain America (C3G) (900 points)
vs.
Doctor Octopus, Killer Croc, 3x LexCorps Security (810 points)

Spoiler Alert!
And here's the rest.

- Theme Test/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them. Inconclusive, but only because I don't know the character. Nothing seemed wrong, certainly, and Thunderbolt Redemption is a great way to get her character arc across. In a way, she reminds me of Starman (Jack Knight) in that respect - a nice, simple power that manages to reflect her character development excellently. Seems like a win to me.
- Mirror Test/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game. Pass
- Bonding Test/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding. Pass - This is her best asset, being essentially a Crime Fighter/Charlatan Sidekick, not forgetting that she can also redeem Criminals and Repentant figures. Redeeming is an interesting option, but not overly powerful - the LexCorps are probably the best build for any of the Criminals, anyway. Still, it opens up a lot of options for army builds (and I can't deny a little smile at the thought of taking a redeemed Doc Ock with Spidey in a Crime Fighter build ), and of course, Atlas and Radioactive Man are also options - Radioactive Man will especially appreciate it, since he has no other synergies, but he has a lot of competition. Criminal may now officially be the most versatile class in the game.
- Synergies Test/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak. Pass - see above.
- Power Check/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any. Pass - She's decently strong - there's no one area she excels at, but she can help you in a lot of ways, being essentially a sidekick, a defensive aura and, potentially, a class changer all in one.
- Fun Test/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play. Pass - she's fun to play and she can make for some interesting builds thanks to Thunderbolt Redemption.
- Fun Competitive Test/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against. Pass - I am solo testing, but I couldn't see any issues - though I may be feeling a tad frustrated if I'm taking Venom (unless your opponent also has Spidey, which is not unlikely considering her Crime Fighter synergies).
- Drafting Test/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting. Pass
- Usage Test/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable. Pass - Every power was quite useful.
- Strategy Test/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game. Pass - There are a lot of different parts to this design, as I said, that can help you in different, little ways. Add the fact that there are essentially two (albeit related) builds you can take her in, and yes, she adds some notable strategy to the game.

Army Test 2
Map: Badru Valley (no glyphs)
Armies;
Songbird, Doctor Octopus, Luke Cage, Iron Man (MkIV), Firestar, Kick-Ass (995 points)
vs.
Baron Heinrich Zemo, Kraven the Hunter, Titanium Man, Bane, Batroc the Leaper, Trickster (James Jesse) (995 points)
Spoiler Alert!


Thoughts On The Tested Unit's Cost, Balance, & Draftibility:

She was fun and useful. I think I said most of what I have to under Bonding, Power and Strategy. She may be worth more 170 than 180, but I’m unsure - neither one would bother me, it’s honestly a minor matter in my opinion. She works fine.



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Last edited by Lazy Orang; November 22nd, 2016 at 07:49 PM.
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  #87  
Old November 17th, 2016, 09:50 PM
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Re: The Book of Songbird (Public Playtesting Phase)

Thanks, LO! Looking good so far. Might need a slight buff. Bam Bam said he'd run some tests, so I'll wait and see how his turn out.

Minor tangential point: those aren't the New Thunderbolts. These guys are:
Spoiler Alert!

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  #88  
Old November 17th, 2016, 09:56 PM
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Re: The Book of Songbird (Public Playtesting Phase)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Thanks, LO! Looking good so far. Might need a slight buff. Bam Bam said he'd run some tests, so I'll wait and see how his turn out.

Minor tangential point: those aren't the New Thunderbolts. These guys are:
Spoiler Alert!
Ah, I didn't really know, I just thought I'd heard the name used in the context off a heroic Thunderbolt team, so I thought, why not? After all, it definitely wasn't the real Masters of Evil either.
I'm not sure she really needs buffing (nor do I know how you'd buff her) - I'd be pretty happy with where she is at 170/180, but I'm certainly not opposed to a buff if someone who knows the character feels she deserves it.


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  #89  
Old November 17th, 2016, 10:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Songbird (Public Playtesting Phase)

Yeah, I'm not actually sure she needs a boost. Just a little wary because she showed weak in initial testing. Seems like the aura upgrade may have been enough to get her on track, though.

Thematically, you weren't far off. New Thunderbolts wasn't quite the first heroic Thunderbolts team, but it was the first to really be accepted by the public as such (EDIT: Well, not counting that time the public was duped by the original T-Bolts, of course). First non-fugitives-from-justice Thunderbolts team.

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  #90  
Old November 17th, 2016, 11:48 PM
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Re: The Book of Songbird (Public Playtesting Phase)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Thanks, LO! Looking good so far. Might need a slight buff. Bam Bam said he'd run some tests, so I'll wait and see how his turn out.

Minor tangential point: those aren't the New Thunderbolts. These guys are:
Spoiler Alert!
Writing it up as we speak!

I have grown to dislike my username choice but am too far into this to change it now. BamBam57 makes me feel less like a robot. So I shall refer to myself as that.

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  #91  
Old November 18th, 2016, 12:01 AM
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Re: The Book of Songbird (Public Playtesting Phase)

Awesome. Should have a pretty quick turnaround in testing, then.

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  #92  
Old November 18th, 2016, 01:03 AM
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Re: The Book of Songbird (Public Playtesting Phase)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: SONGBIRD

Army Test 1
Map: FULCRUM
Units:
Point Total: 800
Army 1: THUNDERBOLTS
Songbird (180), Atlas (270), Radioactive Man (160), Baron Zemo (200)
Army 2: AVENGERS
Captain America (240), Vision (285), Hawkeye (150), Firestar (120)

Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: FULCRUM
Units:
Point Total: 850
Army 1: THUNDERBOLTS
Songbird (180), Baron Helmut Zemo (200), Meteorite (210), Mister Hyde (260)
Army 2: MARVEL FIGHTERS
Luke Cage (190), Jewel (150), Iron Fist (240), Dagger (105), Moon Knight (150)

Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
Cost: She seemed to meet her points. In the first game she helped keep Atlas alive long enough for him to do some damage. The second game had her knocked out a little earlier than I would have wanted. Jessica and Luke kept hitting at 3 wounds or more and the Thunderbolts couldn’t recover.
I did not find any balance issues, she was used when possible to deal a ranged attack with her Charlatan bonding ability while hanging out behind her teammates to get them boosted.
I can see myself drafting her as more of the Thunderbolts are designed. She could one day be the Invisible Woman to a competitive Thunderbolt build.



GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: The highlight was keeping Atlas alive and him getting down to 1 health remaining. Cap wounding Atlas, Atlas rolling a 1 to detonate to kill Cap and wound Vision was the turning point of the first game. At that point the strategy became use Songbird to keep Radioactive man buffed and and Zemo with the X to switch up my attack.

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  #93  
Old November 18th, 2016, 01:38 AM
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Re: The Book of Songbird (Public Playtesting Phase)

Thanks for the tests, Bam Bam!

Going forward, you might want to focus a bit more on trying to put together strong competitive builds instead of just thematic armies. Hyde's got Thunderbolts history, for instance, but he doesn't add much to that build.

It's a little tricky to get the hang of drafting competitively tough armies, but it helps us ferret out balance problems better. Don't be afraid to ask questions on that front! It's really easy to do in the Danger Room, and we're glad to help.

Still, I'm mostly concerned about Songbird's individual performance in these games, and she seems like she's doing okay on that front. I'll run a couple games with her to confirm, and I'd love to get another experienced tester to tackle her as well. Should be enough to square her away.

I'm thinking of trimming the option to bond with Crime Fighters as a Charlatan. Doesn't seem like the recruitment aspect of Thunderbolt Redemption is going to drive her cost much, so I don't think there's much need to have an offsetting benefit on the Charlatan side. It's probably worth trimming just for simplicity.

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  #94  
Old November 18th, 2016, 11:26 AM
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Re: The Book of Songbird (Public Playtesting Phase)

@Arkham @japes

How do the mini pics here look?

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Old November 18th, 2016, 11:43 AM
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Re: The Book of Songbird (Public Playtesting Phase)

Look good to me. I had used one on the card already I believe when I made that mockup earlier on.
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Old November 19th, 2016, 02:14 AM
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Re: The Book of Songbird (Public Playtesting Phase)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Songbird @180 points

Army Test
Map: Sacred Shrine
Units: Atlas, Songbird, Captain America (C3G), Oracle (800) vs Wrecking Crew (800)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Sacred Shrine
Units: Atlas, Songbird, Captain America (C3G), Oracle (800) vs Wrecking Crew (800)
Spoiler Alert!


GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Ran her a couple times. Same builds twice, because she had a weirdly strong showing against the Wrecking Crew and I wanted to run that again. Still won the second match, but Songbird wasn't herself amazing in the second one, and I feel comfortable chalking it up to bad luck on the Wrecking Crew's part. Never seen Wrecker completely drop the ball like he did in both of those games.

Songbird/Atlas/Cap did play strongly, though. Giving Sonic Construct Defense an aura was a good move. Songbird's definitely feeling up to snuff at 180 now. No buffs necessary.

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