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Scapers Online Discussing the online HS community |
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#1
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The General Vibe
A handful of interesting events in the last few weeks, and a couple conversations I had, have made me really start thinking about the kind of 'tone' a website has. I thought it was worth discussing, so here I am, discussing it.
The first event that got me thinking also got me really irritated. Namely, one of my reviews that I posted at BGG got me a 3-day suspension. The thing that bothered me was that, while I may not have toed a politically correct line, I didn't post anything intended to make anyone else upset (basically, I said the art in Intrigue looked like it was drawn by Stephen Hawking with a crayon in his mouth, and I may have mentioned retarded kids). The admins called this 'trolling' and gave me three days in my room to think about what I had done. The second thing that got me thinking was a conversation I had with a friend last weekend. He had not heard about my suspension, but his input was incredibly valuable, especially as food for thought (the conversation occurred at lunch, so I had food for thought and for digestion, at the same time). Essentially, he said that he no longer visits Heroscapers.com because he doesn't much like the tone here, but he likes that BGG is a pretty tame place to go, and that he doesn't feel like people are angry at him all the time. BGG just feels friendlier to him. Now, I hadn't given that much thought, but when I look at it, BGG does have a far less tolerant attitude regarding anything that might rock the boat. It borders on thought police, honestly, but it does serve a purpose - it keeps things friendly. Maybe it's friendly because everyone is scared, but the fact is, they have a friendlier atmosphere because the admins tolerate absolutely no variance from the attitude they're trying to reinforce. That makes it a rotten place to go if you want to speak your mind, but it does make it pretty darn inviting for people with weak constitutions and thin skin. The thing is, my friend doesn't have thin skin. He just finds this site to be hostile, and so he doesn't visit. I don't have a problem with hostile, though I do find this site to be regularly populated with stupid people who feel a need to pop off and then cry when they're told to shut the hell up. There's no pretending this site isn't successful and very popular. It's no BoardGameGeek, because it's only about one game, and BGG covers them all, but it's also a lot more free-spirited and less constrictive. But the sometimes-hostile tone that is an inevitable side effect of a free atmosphere (especially on the Internet, where you're not close enough to punch in the face) is hurting our ability to attract new members, and driving off some of the older members. I'm no hypocrite here - I acknowledge without excuse that I am one of those hostile people. My hostility tends to arise from my impatience with stupid people, but the stupid people tend to be a reason that I avoid this site from time to time. I readily admit to being part of the problem, but I think it's worth discussing anyway. So here's my proposition/question - given that BGG is able to draw a larger crowd by catering better to the middle ground, would it be worth tightening the reins around here? Like I said, my posting style would have to change almost immediately, because I'm a pretty sharp-edged dude sometimes. I kind of think it would be worth it, though, because a more inviting atmosphere might help foster a more creative environment. If a potential contributor knew he could post without having to worry about being slammed by a cadre of halfwit pre-teens, he might be more willing to offer constructive ideas. And of course, if we're going to remove some of the hostile, vigilante action that regulates some of the stupid over here, we'll need the admins to do it for us. That probably means more work for the admins, especially at the start. It's also going to mean a lot of hurt feelings. I'm definitely not proposing we become as draconian as BGG. Those people are crazy. But a little enforced courtesy might invite more players and contributors, and make the entire site a little more comfortable. http://drakesflames.blogspot.com Drake's Flames, my crassly opinionated game review site. Updates three times a week. |
#2
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Re: The General Vibe
This is just my personal opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
I have no problem with blasting people who have more then 5-10 posts when they don't search and/or post generally retarded crap. But freaking out on someone who has just joined the boards for starting a new thread is not something that exactly promotes community growth. That doesn't happen all the time, but enough for it to be noticed. I do cringe a bit when people get blasted for posting in 'online' speak, perhaps because I am used to doing it and it sorta reeks of old' fuddy-duddys wanting to keep the youngins away. I think there is a difference between people using certain forms of short-hand verus someone 7yp1n6 l1k3 7415, but it all seems to get squashed here pretty quick. I can see where people think it's annoying, but again, some consessions have to be made based on the reality of how people type these days unless you want the community to include only those 30+ Overall though, I don't see anything wrong with the overall tone of the site. I do wish we had a 'anything goes' section of the forums where we could just go at it from time to time...I think there could be some entertaining threads if it was kept out of the informational areas...but again, this isn't really a competative community...I am used to MMO boards where player/guild hate was what drove 90% of the threads, and this place is a different beast, so perhaps that sort of stuff really doesn't belong. Rambling a bit I guess, but at the end of the day I guess things are pretty much fine the way they are. A few folks could probably due with drinking more decafe in the mornings so they are not quite so amp'd up to lay down the hammer (Ona...looking at you kid ...though only sort of) but for the most part things tend to go fairly smooth compared to most other communities I have been a part of. My Customs Winter Olympics = $6,000,000,000 Gold Medal Hockey Tickets = $2,000 Seeing an American Politician forced to wear a Canadian Jersey = Priceless |
#3
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Re: The General Vibe
Quote:
Just kidding. I can't say I really see it that much. I'd have to say this is a pretty good place to hang all and all. One thing that used to bug me was seeing people slammed for common questions, being told to use the search function. Honestly have you tried using to search function here it can be more work that just coming out and asking the question. There is a lot of info hidden on this site and much is buried in posts that have 100's of replies. None the less I've seen much less slamming of late. Good trades with: Porkins, Sup3rS0n1c, Devil's Advocate |
#4
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Re: The General Vibe
To start off, I'd like to say that I find the reviews from your blog really well written and hilarious. I am not at all offended by mentions of Stephen Hawking trying to draw, or retarded babies.
I'm not a PC guy by nature (my best friend is a chilango beaner and I tell him so pretty much every day), nor do I have a thin skin. For some reason, I do try to rein in my responses to stupidity on the internet in a way that I never have with people I know, but is similar to the way I treat strangers in person. For some reason, I'm not comfortable being uncivil to people I don't know. Also, because I deal with stupid customers at work daily, I probably am able to hold back on my first instinct to call someone a dumbass and give a more polite explanation due to long practice. I do get very annoyed by the people who have posted 5 different questions, all about specific units but set up as new thread, and have been told each time to post things like that in the Books but don't listen. I also hate text speak, I can barely even bring myself to do it when texting from my phone let alone online. I don't know what could be done to change this; the admins already work pretty hard, and it seems like the majority of people on this site do not appreciate the extreme response to stupidity, but don't have the authority (real or implied) to affect the posting behavior of longtimers like yourself. If the admins take on this responsibility, they also have to be responsible for curbing the poor posting habits of those who raise the ire in the first place. All in all, I don't know if I'd be happier with more policing of the site. As it stands, I can deal quite well with both the bad/stupid posters and the angry ones. "While there is a lower class, I am in it, while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." - Eugene V Debs |
#5
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Re: The General Vibe
But... but...
Onacara wouldn't be nearly as entertaining anymore. T.T Sup3rS0n1c = Alexander the Great (August Cave) = Siege (Floating Archipelago) |
#6
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Re: The General Vibe
Quote:
Last edited by Mr Migraine; February 1st, 2010 at 05:31 PM. Reason: post 2500! |
#7
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Re: The General Vibe
It's an interesting thought exercise. I absolutely do not want change that brings us anywhere near what BGG is like.
I've been reading and participating more and more at BGG lately, but I feel like I'm just hitting my head on a brick wall. There is a level of smug and intellectual superiority that is completely OK there that really turns me off. It is very welcoming, but they also run some really great minds out of town. It is all peaches and cream if you fit the mold, but if you don't quite fit the mold you are bludgeoned to death with BGG group think. "This is a great resource" is a ready response to any suggestion of the forum being close minded and unwelcoming. No one is suggesting that BGG is a bad resource, but it's paraded about as if you're a tool for not singing the praises of the site when the forum leaves a turd in a flaming bag on your doorstep. I say keep this place essentially the same. We should be free to say what we want as long as we follow some common decency. We have a reputation system that serves a valuable service, and we have mods and admins who care and are fair and good guys. Any suggestion that there be a "thumbs down" option it is shot down by the sheeple. I can't count how many forums I see with thumbs up and thumbs down counters, but for BGG it is somehow a bad idea. I like to talk about how the rep system here is meaningless, but that is only partly true. At BGG the thumb system is a complete joke. People have an option to say a post is good, or they can report it offensive. There isn't any reasonable way to disagree with something without calling someone to the carpet, or starting a flame war. A flame war at BGG is won by whichever side is spouting the group think regardless of if there are any rules violations in doing so. We aren't perfect here, and we have a long way to go, but we have it a lot better than BGG in my humble and unbiased opinion. Follow the adventures of Agent Minivann
http://agentminivann.blogspot.com/ http://opensourcevolleyball.blogspot.com/ |
#8
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Re: The General Vibe
Quote:
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#9
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Re: The General Vibe
Idinno,
I find this place fairly chill. I hate Internet "speak" and crappy grammer and spelling when it can be avoided. I'm not talking perfection here, but enought of effort that the mispelling/bad grammer is hardly noticable. For instance my last sentence is horrible as far as the law of the english langauge go, but anyone who is literate shouldn't have any difficulty in understanding what I wrote. I wish there was only one or two people who were desinated the search police. Instead we get 4 or 5 people clogging a threat which "you should search" as there only addition to the discussion. For me it is about making elegant threads that read like written dialogue as you would see when reading a play. A conversation writen in good english, where each line adds and forwards the converstation, not just reitterates old ideas and repeats what was previously said. Sure some of the old times can be crusty but most are great. I guess my additute stems from the first law of Male communication: If there are 2 ways to interpret what I said, I meant the good one. |
#10
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Re: The General Vibe
Quote:
I wish there were no designated "search police". Actually there aren't any designated "search police". Follow the adventures of Agent Minivann
http://agentminivann.blogspot.com/ http://opensourcevolleyball.blogspot.com/ |
#11
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Re: The General Vibe
I am not advocating Internet speak, I am just saying that expecting everyone to conform to a certain expectation when it comes to how they type/speak online may not be a line in the sand that is worth drawing.
Oh, and for the record...there was a time when the English that we speak was looked down on as a vulgar language not fit for anyone of real class...language changes over time and this could just be the next evolution in our language My Customs Winter Olympics = $6,000,000,000 Gold Medal Hockey Tickets = $2,000 Seeing an American Politician forced to wear a Canadian Jersey = Priceless |
#12
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Re: The General Vibe
I have absolutely no patience for the 'ignorance is evolution' argument for poor grammar. 'I kan has cheezberger' is not the evolution of English, unless we're all evolving into idiots.
I definitely wouldn't want to see us turn into BGG. But I know we could be more friendly and welcoming, which BGG does quite a bit better. I'm not suggesting I want to see the kind of jackboot thought police that makes any nonconformist leave them to their own inbred snobbery. On the other hand, though, I'm not sure I like how easily we run off new members when they see how quick we are to offer a verbal beating. There's got to be a balance. I would like for us to find it. http://drakesflames.blogspot.com Drake's Flames, my crassly opinionated game review site. Updates three times a week. |
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