Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[nyys]

Hmmm... I think that removes all of krsto's nominations, so I'll hold off until told otherwise.

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Gor'vath by robbdaman

Nice and straight forward, available mini, and no assembly required. I was also looking for a reason to pull out the Arrow Gruts. Yes to review.

[Lamaclown]

I haven't looked at robdaman's nomination yet but here are my thoughts on krysto's...

Asmodeus
Adder's Venom is certainly a thematic ability and it belongs, however, I think too much is packed into it which makes it overkill (probably literally for the poisoned figure). Rolling an attack die for each venom marker makes perfect sense but tossing in rolling an attack die for each wound marker plus the penalties to base stats gets to be too much for a 50 point figure.
I have to vote NO to review.

Blood Raptor
Again, very thematic abilities. However (it seems I like that word), being able to get a not unlikely 3 attacks of 6 per OM for only 90 points seems underpriced.
I have to vote NO to review.

Einar's Centurions
I know this first point will seem nit-picky but bear with me. Centurions were officers in charge of their own "squads" of 80-100 men. They weren't their own squads. Also, the abilities are not thematic for Centurions. It isn't that Centurions were elite, they were the leaders of the common soldier, inspiring them in battle by being in the thick of battle. This squad, for me doesn't capture the essence of what centurions were. It also would give us a HS historical unit whose name is a historically inaccurate portrayal of the unit. A common hero called Roman centurion would be better.
I also see Elite Shield Wall combined with Einar's Finest as too much, not to mention that they bond as well.
I vote NO to review

Gordyyr
Reflective Scales is a fitting ability, however, having it benefit adjacent figures is a little much. It renders common range units ineffective. Who wants to risk firing on multiple figures with ranged counterstrike with a 1 life ranged unit? This wouldn't be as bad if it weren't for Scintillating Fires. While an opponent's common melee are advancing, since his common range are pratically rendered useless, Scintillating Fires will wreak havoc on them.
ordyyr has too much going for him, especially for 145 points.
I vote NO to review

Swarm Gruts
I am not as sure about this unit. I am a little confused with Swarm Tactics. It seems like an almost needless ability. I would rather have 10 figures from which to choose with each OM I reveal than have 5 waiting on the sidelines. However (there is that word again), that is just a personal preference. So, I am going to think over the Swarm Gruts some more before giving my vote.

You have some neat ideas, krysto. The above units show creativity and a nice ability to give thematic flavor to units. Keep pluggin' along.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by nyys

Hmmm... I think that removes all of krsto's nominations, so I'll hold off until told otherwise.

Arghhh... ninja'd in the worst way! All of that typing for nothing.

[nyys]

Arghhh... ninja'd in the worst way! All of that typing for nothing.

I'd say the constructive criticism is still appreciated lama, I know some of the cartographers in the BoV thread would like to hear from all the judges even if the map has been denied review (though sometimes time is a commodity and it doesn't happen).

[tcglkn]

I was skeptic that y'all wouldn't be as rigorous as the BoV and wouldn't give detailed critiques because I didn't know of you guys experience. I am very pleased with what I am seeing so far. Keep up the good work!

(This is just more incentive to finish the unit that I am currently testing.)

[Dad_Scaper]

In response to a couple of criticisms of Krysto's units, even though I voted on all of them, I thought it would be fair to him to clear up a couple misunderstandings.

1. The Blood Raptors do not, as I read the card, give 3 attacks per OM. They give one attack and movement of two additional Raptors, which must be adjacent to the targeted attackee. The wording is not horrible but it was, apparently, enough to confuse a couple of my fellow judges which is not a great recommendation for the card either. Also even with only one attack per OM I still think there's way too much going on for a 30 point hero.

2. Swarm Gruts
At 50 points and 5/squad, start zone space becomes a real issue for these guys. The "swarm" mechanic appears to be Krysto's clever mechanism for squeezing them into the army. That's why I observed you'd want at least 6, unfortunately, to make 6 of them you'd need to sacrifice 12 squads of Blade Gruts, which is why I voted no. Also, if that's the effect he wanted - to mess with start zone restrictions - that probably should have been on the card.

I do not think it's a coincidence at all that, of the eight units we have now considered reviewing, it's the one with the *fewest words* that appears to be the first that may get to the review process.

Originally Posted by tcglkn

I was skeptic that y'all wouldn't be as rigorous as the BoV and wouldn't give detailed critiques because I didn't know of you guys experience. I am very pleased with what I am seeing so far. Keep up the good work!

(This is just more incentive to finish the unit that I am currently testing.)

Thank you for the kind words. It is my personal goal that units we approve are worthy to be on the tabletop of anyone who plays this game, and that's a high standard.

[killercactus]

ALERT - random KC theoryscape ramblings about proposed figures coming!

Asmodeus - I actually like the look, feel and power level of this guy. When compared to Me-Burq-Sa, I don't think he's much stronger, if at all. He doesn't have range (which greatly weakens his 2 special powers compared to MBS) and has pretty low survivability, but would be a fun and balanced figure, I think. I don't know that Arrow Gruts need all these new bonding heroes, though.

Blood Raptor - Again, not sure that the Arrow Gruts need any more, but I really like this guy, too. The wording on Pack Hunting needs work though ("the same figure" bugs me - maybe "the attacked figure?" I'd have to go look at the Grok Riders card as they have a similar mechanic). I don't think it's too powerful for the points, and I like that you can move 2 you didn't activate, since that gives me incentive to play more than one.

Gordyrr - This guy is broken at 145 Points. Straight up broken. He has a super Queglix Gun and Evil Eye Protection that works against any attack, plus he flies. No way.

Swarm Gruts - 10 figures for 50 Points, and they dodge start zone restrictions? Super broken. Even worse than Gordyrr.

Centaurions - These guys probably aren't too strong for their points, but I don't really see a practical use for them alongside Romans - there's just too many figures. I don't think they're broken, but I just don't really like them I guess...

[Lamaclown]

Originally Posted by DaddyScaper

In response to a couple of criticisms of Krysto's units, even though I voted on all of them, I thought it would be fair to him to clear up a couple misunderstandings.

1. The Blood Raptors do not, as I read the card, give 3 attacks per OM. They give one attack and movement of two additional Raptors, which must be adjacent to the targeted attackee. The wording is not horrible but it was, apparently, enough to confuse a couple of my fellow judges which is not a great recommendation for the card either. Also even with only one attack per OM I still think there's way too much going on for a 30 point hero.

Yeah, if the intent was that the figures could only move and not attack than the wording is confusing since it states that the moved figures must end their move engaged to the same figure as the original attacking figure. When speaking of moving to engage a figure that usually means attacking it.
So, I concede my misunderstanding. Of course an ability that easily misunderstood (I say that only because I wasn't the only one to misunderstand it) shows a need for some wordsmithing.

Thanks for chiming in, KC!

Originally Posted by killercactus

ALERT - random KC theoryscape ramblings about proposed figures coming!

Asmodeus - I actually like the look, feel and power level of this guy. When compared to Me-Burq-Sa, I don't think he's much stronger, if at all. He doesn't have range (which greatly weakens his 2 special powers compared to MBS) and has pretty low survivability, but would be a fun and balanced figure, I think. I don't know that Arrow Gruts need all these new bonding heroes, though.

His low survivability and non-range are what, I think, keeps him from being broken; I agree with you on those points. Where I think he doesn't pass muster is that his Adder's Venom is too good, IMHO. If it was simply rolling an attack die for each venom marker, or reducing M,R,A, and D for each venom marker I think I could have gone for that. But having both of those plus rolling an attack die for each wound marker just seemed to be too much.

[Dad_Scaper]

Thanks for checking in, KC.

Originally Posted by killercactus

Swarm Gruts - 10 figures for 50 Points, and they dodge start zone restrictions? Super broken. Even worse than Gordyrr.

This is a very interesting observation because, looking at the card, I can see how you would read it that way. I don't *think* it's what Krysto intended, I think for every squad in your start zone you *may* purchase another squad & keep it out of the start zone, but it's yet another way to misunderstand one of Krysto's cards.

I really like many of his ideas, but it's telling that, of the 5 cards, there have been drastically different readings of the operation of powers on 3 of them.

[Lamaclown]

Originally Posted by DaddyScaper

Thanks for checking in, KC.

This is a very interesting observation because, looking at the card, I can see how you would read it that way. I don't *think* it's what Krysto intended, I think for every squad in your start zone you *may* purchase another squad & keep it out of the start zone, but it's yet another way to misunderstand one of Krysto's cards.

I really like many of his ideas, but it's telling that, of the 5 cards, there have been drastically different readings of the operation of powers on 3 of them.

That is why I held off my vote on them. I wanted to know exactly what was meant. If it was 10 figs for 50 points- no way. If it was purchasing 50 points of figs to sit on the sidelines, I didn't understand the need for it. The AE and Rechets of Bogdan are different since you must place them on the sidelines at the beginning, it is not an option. However, since that is a personal play preference I would have been open to them. However, since my fellow judges voted no, it was a moot point to seek an answer to my question.

As I stated in my original post on krysto's figs, I am in agreement with DS, I really like krysto's ideas. He needs to keep creating for sure.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Originally Posted by Lamaclown

Originally Posted by Lamaclown

Yeah, if the intent was that the figures could only move and not attack than the wording is confusing since it states that the moved figures must end their move engaged to the same figure as the original attacking figure. When speaking of moving to engage a figure that usually means attacking it.
So, I concede my misunderstanding. Of course an ability that easily misunderstood (I say that only because I wasn't the only one to misunderstand it) shows a need for some wordsmithing.

That was my concern as well, I like the idea, but the power is confusing and the way I read it was too powerful. Thanks DS, for straightening me out, and I like how it works…but it needs a point increase and some wordsmithing before the review process.

Originally Posted by Lamaclown

Thanks for chiming in, KC!

His low survivability and non-range are what, I think, keeps him from being broken; I agree with you on those points. Where I think he doesn't pass muster is that his Adder's Venom is too good, IMHO. If it was simply rolling an attack die for each venom marker, or reducing M,R,A, and D for each venom marker I think I could have gone for that. But having both of those plus rolling an attack die for each wound marker just seemed to be too much.

That’s what I had problem with as well LC. It’s venom was too powerful in my opinion for only 50 points.

Also thanks KC for your input…please feel free to stop by at anytime

[ZBeeblebrox]

Originally Posted by Lamaclown

As I stated in my original post on krysto's figs, I am in agreement with DS, I really like krysto's ideas. He needs to keep creating for sure.

I agree Krysto has some cool ideas, but the execution needs to be polished.

[Lamaclown]

I forgot...
I like the simplicity and up-frontness (is that a word ) of Gor'vath.
YES to review.