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  #205  
Old June 24th, 2020, 12:53 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

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Originally Posted by LordVenoc View Post
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Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Is that a particularly bad thing? Swamp Thing charging in, getting torn apart, then rebuilding while the rest of the team does their thing doesnít feel off to me.
He's really not a brash bruiser, so yeah the charge him in and get him killed while everyone else comes in is not really on theme. He's a Protector first and foremost, and in at least the second rendition of the book he's more a begrudging participant than anything else. Hyper aggressive definitely isn't his MO.
Sure, thatís fair. Heís a character thatís active and often even furious, but I cam see how the current version could make him come off as brash or headstrong, which isnít correct.

I do think a bruiser with a ressurection mechanic is always going to be a bit of a kamikazee unit, but Iím hoping we could strike kind of a Cap-esque balance where his support is as solid as his offense.

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Reluctant Hero?

RELUCTANT HERO
If there are no Order Markers on this card and a Unique Hero you control is destroyed, you may move all unrevealed Order Markers from that Hero's Army Card to this card.

Could the JLD use a OM save unit?
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Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
Spike had a protector power? Or Angel?
Maybe something like that.
Honestly, I just donít think thereís room for that and the environment manipulation/ressurection, and I just dig that stuff more on a Swamp Thing.

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Well Avatar of the Green does encourage you to use him as a defensive piece at least.

Should we use Evergreen Tree Destructible Objects there?
Having one of them be a DO and one of them be a terrain piece feels weird to me.

Starting to lean back towards just using Jungle Plants. I know you guys wanted the variety for players who only have one kind of terrain, but itís just a lot of extra text, and if youíre using them as defensive tools, the Jungle Pieces are pretty much directly superior.

I guess we could just go with all Trees instead, itís just that placing trees is something thatís been done before.
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  #206  
Old June 24th, 2020, 12:57 PM
LordVenoc LordVenoc is offline
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

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Is that a particularly bad thing? Swamp Thing charging in, getting torn apart, then rebuilding while the rest of the team does their thing doesnít feel off to me.
He's really not a brash bruiser, so yeah the charge him in and get him killed while everyone else comes in is not really on theme. He's a Protector first and foremost, and in at least the second rendition of the book he's more a begrudging participant than anything else. Hyper aggressive definitely isn't his MO.
Sure, thatís fair. Heís a character thatís active and often even furious, but I cam see how the current version could make him come off as brash or headstrong, which isnít correct.

I do think a bruiser with a ressurection mechanic is always going to be a bit of a kamikazee unit, but Iím hoping we could strike kind of a Cap-esque balance where his support is as solid as his offense.
I see him much more as "Well I guess things are really boned if I don't help, so fine, I'll help." The JLD eras of Swamp Thing really aren't super on board with the role of Swamp Thing, and by time he is on board with it, he's pretty darn reclusive. I'd say that was probably the motivation/reasoning behind my original draft discouraging leaving the start zone, now that I think of it.
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  #207  
Old June 24th, 2020, 01:33 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

Yeah, if he has a resurrection power then tactics dictate you send him out first so he can die first and then hopefully return to play before the rest of the team gets wiped out. Maybe just drop the resurrection power, just because he can do it in a comic book story doesn't mean he has to do it in the ~15 minutes a C3G battle takes place during.
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  #208  
Old June 24th, 2020, 01:54 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

While I’m trying to come at this as a Swamp Thing that can work with the JLD (although not necessarily a JLD Swamp Thing, if that makes sense) , I’ll cop to being way more familiar with classic Moore/Vertigo Swamp Thing. (Who almost destroys Gotham one time in a fit of rage.) I’ve always seen him as a pretty proactive character, just one whose goals often don’t mesh with those of the other protagonists in any given story.

I think there’s definitely an argument that ST vI (the one that literally has a personality of Vengeful) has that angle of the character covered though.

I’m also coming at this from the angle that he’s always going to be a frontline bruiser in a JLD build pretty much no matter how we spin it. They desperately need heavy hitters right now, and he’ll be one of the biggest hitters they’ll get. So I’d rather lean into that and have him play well in that role than try to fight against the current.
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  #209  
Old June 24th, 2020, 01:56 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Yeah, if he has a resurrection power then tactics dictate you send him out first so he can die first and then hopefully return to play before the rest of the team gets wiped out. Maybe just drop the resurrection power, just because he can do it in a comic book story doesn't mean he has to do it in the ~15 minutes a C3G battle takes place during.
I actually think ST is one of the few characters who probably could justify a ressurection over the course of minutes, but I also considered giving him Vegetative Muck from Man-Thing. The JLD kinda has a neat aesthetic of ďcanít give me too many wound at onceĒ that could be built upon later.
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  #210  
Old June 24th, 2020, 02:48 PM
LordVenoc LordVenoc is offline
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

A design that encourages a character playstyle unthematic to the character is uninteresting to me. I'd say drop the Resurrection. It's not in every story, and definitely not in the JLD stories. Couple that with it encouraging hyper aggression, and I dislike it more as I think about it.

He's a powerhouse, yes, and will lend himself to that role by nature of his stats. But the direction you're building toward feels more like "fill x roll in JLD and make it vaguely Swamp Thingy" rather than "a modern era Swamp Thing that has some cool potential JLD ties." Even if is a good potential bruiser for them, he should never really feel like a factional centerpiece, because he's very much an adjunct to the team rather than core roster. If they need a bruiser, that should probably be filled by a Wonder Woman design IMO.
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  #211  
Old June 24th, 2020, 03:25 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

Sure, let's swap it out for Vegetative Muck, that works for me.
Quote:
VEGETATIVE MUCK
When Swamp Thing defends against an attack, the most wounds he can take from this attack is two. At the end of the round, if Swamp Thing is adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or a Jungle Piece, or on a grass, swamp, or swamp water space, remove a Wound Marker from this card.
Then we need a new way to place the plants, however. What about just directly riffing off Floronic Man?
Quote:
ACCELERATED PLANT GROWTH
Start the game with 3 Jungle Plant Destructible Objects on this card. After moving, before attacking, you may choose an empty space within 6 spaces of Swamp Thing and place 1 Jungle Plant Destructible Object from this card on the chosen space. Placed plants must fit on the battlefield normally. If you destroy a Jungle Plant Destructible Object, you may remove all Wound Markers from its Army Card and place it on this card.
Quote:
JUNGLE PLANT

LIFE = 1
DEFENSE = 4


JUNGLE PLANT
Whenever a special power on an Army Card refers to a Jungle Piece, it refers to Jungle Plant as well.

THICK FOLIAGE
When defending against a non-adjacent attack, a small, medium, or large figure adjacent to Jungle Plant may roll 1 additional defense die.
I'd probably take his usage of the plants in a more aggressive direction then, instead of the blanks = shields thing. Something that probably encourages blanks/D20 rolls?
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  #212  
Old June 24th, 2020, 03:54 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

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Originally Posted by LordVenoc View Post
Even if is a good potential bruiser for them, he should never really feel like a factional centerpiece, because he's very much an adjunct to the team rather than core roster. If they need a bruiser, that should probably be filled by a Wonder Woman design IMO.
Also admittedly a bit confused by this statement. ST joins the team about halfway through their initial run, sticks with them until the end, and is one of the two characters who seems to transfer over to the 2nd incarnation. And at least in the original run, it's not like he's a poor team player or anything. He seems way more core to me than someone like Frankenstein, who was around for less than 20 issues.
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  #213  
Old June 24th, 2020, 04:00 PM
LordVenoc LordVenoc is offline
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

...I clearly have a spotty memory of the first run. For some reason I thought he only popped up in like an arc and a half.
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